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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - -3 degrees negative camber

I replaced my complete front end on my Frog with 1275 parts (frontline telescopic set, discs, polybush etc) The lower wishbones were new heritage replacement parts and the end result was a negative camber of -2 on the left side and -3 degrees on the right side. It drives much better, but how do I get less negative camber?

Flip



Flip Brühl 948 frog 59

Hi Flip

The difference of one degree camber is I suspect inside the normal variation of midget shell.

You could try to 'fix' with offset trunion on one side. Or raise/lower a side to decrease/increase static camber reading. Remember to relax the suspension after any change.

Or why not re-take the reading with the driver present and the suspension relaxed to see if the extra load on the left side causes any change (depends on how stiff are your springs).

A
Anthony Cutler

Or re-take the reading with the driver AND engine/gearbox present...
Jonathan Severn

Differences in camber from one side to the other are usually due to the car not sitting level (from side to side). Usually the drivers side sits a bit lower that the pasemgers side, this results in the camber being a bit less negative.

2-3 deg negative is a camber setting well within the normal range for tweaked suspensions. The main thing is how does the car feel? You say much better - then may be all you need. If you have too much negative the car will tend to lack stability and lose the back end too soon when cornering hard.
Paul Walbran

You would think Tim at Frontline would make a range of slightly longer and slightly shorter arms for his kit as a very solution for your problem and also so car with lowered suspension do get 2 degrees negative with the Frontline kit (based on a design produced by David Billington) rather than zero.
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

If when double checked you still get 3deg the easiest way to fine tune would be to use eccentric nylatron bushes on the trunion.

***thread hijack****

has anyone fitted a bar across the engine bay, to tie FL suspension together? i think it would just clear the front of the engine..
d cusworth

I have; just clears rad and Kseries. I welded extra brackets onto the FL tops; one with hole to take bolt on bar-end; other with slot for easy removal.

A
Anthony Cutler

Pickie please Ant.
Brad (Sprite IV 1380)

I guess it can be quite low tech - even a 1" angle iron bolted through the front vertical faces of the FL unit
d cusworth

Hi Danny

Quite right; the simpler the better.

Brad

But as usual job on BRB was done because...

- I was up in Paul's workshop again
- forgotten what the job was
- but we had an hour to kill (paint drying, maybe)
- I found a section of round-section bar and suggested we make a link across FL suspension tops
- neither of us could be bothered to remove the susp tops (and it would have taken 'too long' in any case)
- so Paul welded brackets on the tops, cut the bar, and welded a bolt on each end
- he painted it too (just because it was done in a hurry doesn't mean it wasn't a top job ;) )
- and here it is in a pic with a couple of details pasted in

Bar is far too thick; you could lift the car with it.

Pic reminds me I must get an oily rag out sometimes and clean all the cr*p under my bonnet (probably save a load of sprung weight).

A


Anthony Cutler

Ok, so whats the upside to this modification?
Brad (Sprite IV 1380)

to stiffen the front end under high loads be reducing chassis flex (like a "max power" strut brace)
d cusworth

I had another motivation in addition for BRB: the KSeries engine doesn't use the original mounts on the lower part of the suspension turrets. The engine's postion here will provide some resistance to movement and also damping of suspension pertubations/shocks.

So I thought I'd join them together to provide some of these lost characteristics; at some point the bar will be re-designed and the engine will be attached to give further damping.

A
Anthony Cutler

To add something which many may find an improvement

should you fit an adjustable brace between the two top suspension points then generally you would see people trying the turn them to shorten them. This is wrong on so many levels.

Adjust the bar so it is pushing the top mounts apart. This will allow you to push through standing water with very little effect on the driving condition.

I'm not 100% on the reasoning behind it. But a breif development stint with Ohlins for our race cars showed a HUGE improvement when the wet races came. Give it a go should you decide to fit one.
PeterJMoore

done.

completed before mr Cutler's photo, made with what I had in stock . welded washers to increase bearing area.

Peter's idea seems a little advanced to me, maybe extending the bar in wet conditions simply takes some camber off which would be better in the wet?
d cusworth

photo


d cusworth

another


d cusworth

Sorry for answering so late: I was sailing and there was fog on the North Sea. So I was sailing longer than expected. It was nice to sail longer. I could not reach Harwich but we came to Oostende (nice fish restaurants good beer)

What a nice bar and do you feel any difference?

I had the camber measured with the engine and tranny as well as 2 persons in. The car behaves good although at first there was oversteer witch I could change to neutral with polyurethane bushes instead of worn out rubber in the 11/16 ARB. E- mailing Tim Fenna is a good suggestion. A simple solution for an asymmetric body.

Flip
Flip Brühl 948 frog 59

Hi Danny

Looks neat. We went for screws at the ends (to clamp and) to provide adjustment. I adjust when suspension is relaxed (ie on the ground and love back/forth to take out any residual tenson) and adjust inner screws to apply zero load on bar for ambient.

Never thought of applying some +ve force for wet conditions.

A
Anthony Cutler

Anthony, I made mine before you posted your photo. i don't like mine as much as yours - bolts in shear aren't as good as yours in tension/compression.
"I adjust when suspension is relaxed (ie on the ground and love back/forth to take out any residual tenson)" - I bet after a little "love back/forth" all your tension has gone!

d cusworth

>>I bet after a little "love back/forth" all your tension has gone

Indeed. These days I'm finding it tiresome to adjust the bar more than 5 times a day.

A
Anthony Cutler

Peter's comment must relate to macpherson strut equiped cars, where there is a decent distance betweent the top mount and the inboard TCA/lower wishbone mounting points?
I'd doubt that there is enough 'give' in the X member on a midget to enable any significant 'adjustment'.

Lots of static -ve camber generates 'camber thrust' which can make a car darty/nervous when one wheel hits standing water and the other dosen't.


rob
robnrrugby

This thread was discussed between 18/05/2010 and 25/05/2010

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