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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - 1500 rear springs on a 1275 - YES!

Evening Gent's
1 1/2 years ago, shortly after having bought my midget MK III, build in 1971, I gave the vehicle a major overhaul. Among many, mmany worn parts discarded and renewed with new, were the rear springs. I bought them from AH Spares, xsur127, since they were priced lower than the Moss springs. The dampers were bought new too. From the very beginning I felt the springs were way too soft.
I have since read a lot of view's about the subject. I have learned, that the Midget has to have a soft rear end, leaving the majority of the "firm" suspension to the front region.
What I have read too is, that a lot of Midget 1500 owners exchange their springs for 1275 springs, particularily when discarding the rubber bumpers. (are they really that heavy......?)
So it seems to me that people believe that 1500 springs are a no go.....
Well, having sorted out the front end the past winter, now having a very effective front end, I was feed up with the soft rear, still not having experienced the feeling of the famous Spridget fun on small bendy roads, I had to do something.
Monday I ordered two CHA493 1500 springs at Sussex Classic. They regarded that it would increase the rear hight by one inch. I could live with that, since I feel the rear very low.
Yesterday, Friday, the springs allready arrived and today I fitted them. I was very excited to drive a test run.
WOW, what a different car! What a difference. Now the car can eat the bumps without diving far too low, scratching the inserted "cherry bomb". With the 1275 springs, cornering on bumpy roads were not at all fun. Now it takes the corners and bends a lot faster, even eating the bumps at the same time.
I have read, that when stiffening up the rear could mean stepping behaviour in corners with bumps. But it is NOT stepping around when hitting bumps in the corners. I think that pt actually now is behaving fairly close to what it is meant to.
As a bonus too, I could lift the exhaust pipe up a little, increasing the "cherry bomb" ground clearance, since the new springs does not let the axle hang as low as the previous 1275 springs, when jacked up and the rear axle hanging free.
So, it was a long test run, I couldn't find my way home, it was so much fun.
Sussex Classic stated that the rear would end out being one inch higher, but it is only 1 - 2 mm higher now, if higher at all.
Here attached is a picture with the 1275 springs in the car. The next thread will show a picture shot today with the 1500 springs, with the extra leaf, in the car, notice the difference in the rear end hight - if you can!
Cheers
Jan





Jan Kruber

And Jan's photo with the 1500 springs


GuyW

Jan,
it's great that you are a lot happier with the ride of your car.

There are so many variables between actual examples of the same model and year of car to make absolute statements a grey area but in general I think the 1500 springs perhaps highlight variances elsewhere on and about you car's suspension set up.

The "rubber bumpers" were that heavy, behind the black covers were substantial lumps of metal each end of the car, the difference in weight to full chrome bumpers I don't know.

As per Terry Horler's book 1275 rear springs were "uprated to 80 sq/in with a free camber of 4.72" (119.9mm)".

Whereas the 1500 rear springs - "To increase ride height and support the extra weight, stronger six-leaf rear springs rated at 86 lb/sq in were fitted to all 1500 Midgets.The spring free camber was increased from 4.72in (119.9mm) to 5.58in (141.7mm)".

If you're happy and there are no other or further issues then just enjoy your car and think about the following for later or dismiss it from mind.

I wonder about the fitting of the suspension on your car, the method, other components and parts, I can't remember previous issues, suggestions and solutions but they will be in the Archives.

Perhaps photos, one per post, :) of the underside of your car and suspension might show up any variances, and/or a description of your fitting method might suggest a reason for the 1275 springs not working.

There can of course be variances in the individual springs and sets of springs but it would be a coincidence if these variances cancelled out other variances, a possible zero to 2mm increase in height doesn't sound like it should be correct.

Nigel Atkins

Nigel
Well, anyway, it works much, much better now. I was once convinced on a longer trip yeaterday with the car full loaded with passangers, wife and dog :-). Together with some friends in their Triumph TR250, we drove on small bendy and bumpy roads in this years everlasting summer. We were on faster main roads too. I have no caomplaints, it takes the corners and bumps as never before in my ownership. I'm sure it can be better, but I'm quite happy with it now. And no complaint's either from the passanger about the suspension being to stiff.
Maybe som uprated dampers instead of my exchanged dampers could put the dot over the "i".
We were at a classic meeting where I could study an MGB with rubber bumpers. I noticed, sas you mention, that a huge amount of steel was used in combination with the rubbers.
I can shoot a pair of pic's of the suspension later.
Cheers
Jan
Jan Kruber

Jan,
unless you can drive or at least travel in another Spridget similar to yours which is in good mechanical condition it's difficult to compare. You might even find you prefer your car as it is. TR is a nice car, I've always fancied at least a drive of a TR6 but with a separate chassis I'd have guessed on smaller tighter roads the Spridget would be better handling and more fun.

My opinion is just that, one opinion, and from afar so has limited value, I was thinking of something like has happened to others, like loading (or not?) the suspension during fitting components, shackle brackets wrong angle or way round (being non-technical I may have the terms wrong, and the ideas) just putting it down in print whilst I think of it before I forget.
Nigel Atkins

I have been using 1500 rear springs with a leaf added from the old set for years. The ride height seems perfect and compares favorably to promotional photos of the 1971 1275. I don't think that replacement leaf springs are what they used to be.

I am having problems getting decent front shocks. I have received a couple of them with play in the arms, even after extensive bleeding and use. They don't make these they way they used to either. I ended up using an old LH shock from my pile. There is no play in the lever but it has less action than I would like. I am thinking the next step is to change the valve setting to make it firmer.
Glenn Mallory

Glenn,
The culprit, I believe, is that there are a lot of aftermarket parts, and even parts labelled as "original equipment, of dubious quality and specifications not up to the original factory specifications way then. As I read here or on the MG Experience forum: "welcome to the world of bad parts".
Sussex Classic supplied me with the new 1500 springs recently and told me, that those new springs would raise the rear about one inch, compared with the 1275 springs they. They didn't, but eliminated the bad rear endbehaviour.
It can be better, still, though, I think I will have to uprate the dampers, so that they match the new sparings, as you mention. This will be a winter time task, either I will find some tricks here on the forums, or I will have the dampers uprated by a specialist. Maybe thicker oils, for a start, that I could do here in the driving season on a rainy day.
What grade of oil to use, anybody now?
The dampers are from Moss Europe and are the rebuild ones.
Jan Kruber

The same here Jan.
My originaly 1500 midget was de-bumpered and once K-powered I had 1275 (lowered?)springs under the rear.
Useless especialy in Holland with all the speedbumps and the "round" roads in the UK.
Have put back proper build 1500 springs under it again and its all fine again.
The rear is pritty heavy with spare wheel, tools, some spares and Luggage(when on holliday)



A de Best

Dont forget, this ridehight is without the fat bloke behind the wheel ;)
A de Best

Arie, it's a little difficould to determine the height of the rear on your photo, but it seems to have approx. the same hight as mine has got now, with the new 1500 springs - which in my eyes looks quite right :)
Jan Kruber

This thread was discussed between 14/07/2018 and 23/07/2018

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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