MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - 3D scan for CAD

Would there be any interest in a getting a midget 3D scanned for use in CAD?

I've been modifying a midget for years and until now I've just been measuring up areas of the car which I needed to design around. I thought if there was enough interest in sharing the cost, we could get a complete car/car body scanned.

I believe the cost is somewhere between 1000 and 1500 gbp, which on my own is too much, but maybe split ten ways it's good value for money?

Anyway, not sure how far reaching this forum is, but speak up if you're interested and we can go from there.

Tom_R2E3

that's an interesting idea. I know why it's a good idea, but the main issue that I could see would be that no 2 Spridgets are the same. Axle offset, wing fit, suspension pickups, front end alignment are all out between cars up to the point that even with a CAD model you'd have to make everything almost bespoke anyway.

certainly some things are aligned OK, but a quick google for camber settings with a Frontline system will throw up everything between 1 deg pos and 6 deg neg camber.

There are a couple of very accurate CAD models externally used in video games that I know of.


Rob Armstrong

There is a great reason to creat a 3D file of the midget

Toy models ! No toy companys make our cars as toys or models... the last one was a company called dinky

Ive checked with reveel and a few others but no takers

My thought was to have staples make one with there paper CNC machine, but it never came to town... i did find a few opperations thst would make the 3D file for around $300, but they were sketchy on the shady side of a bad gut feel

But yeah that would be cool then you can plug it into a plasic CNC machine and 2 houes later have a 1/24th scale toy model

Unfortantly...i dont have a lot of cash im in a slow motion car wreck over the past few years but check with the "experiance website" and "spritespot" as we are the 3 largest midget sightz on the web

Prop
1 Paper

Prop

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-MIDGET-MKIV-MK4-WHITE-SPIDER-1969-DETAIL-CARS-ART-422-1-43/401307864023?hash=item5d6fd00bd7:g:MhEAAOSw241YiJJa

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EBBRO-EB44453-MG-MIDGET-MK1-1961-CREAM-1-43-MODELLINO-DIE-CAST-MODEL/311978181191?epid=2136463189&hash=item48a3594247:g:hxMAAOSwKIBZ3gg5

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPOT-ON-TRIANG-281-MG-MIDGET-IT-HAS-BEEN-REPAINTED-NEW-BUMPERS-DRIVER-WINDOW/152551452916?hash=item2384c670f4:g:YGAAAOSwjL5ZHAiA

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Detail-Cars-ART-427-MG-Midget-MkIV-Charmans-MG-55-1-43/311990620933?epid=1244079441&hash=item48a4171305:g:8JMAAOSw4GVYQE9f

rubber bumper (is this the only case where the RB version is more expensive than CB?)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINIMARQUE-1-43-SCALE-GRB110C-MG-MIDGET-MKIV-MK4-ROOF-UP-ORANGE/162121678223?hash=item25bf347d8f:g:HEUAAOSweWVXdP6y

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINIMARQUE-1-43-SCALE-GRB110D-MG-MIDGET-MKIV-MK4-ROOF-OPEN-ANTIQUE-GOLD/162121689824?hash=item25bf34aae0:g:z5EAAOSwEjFXdQG6



Dominic Clancy

I struggle to see what the end result you're looking for here. Collecting the raw data co-ordinates from a car is useless unless it's tied into an agreed baseline database XYZ, and different operating systems will struggle to speak one to another anyway. But if you assume that the chosen downstream functions - be it model makers, tool manufacturers or game providers all use the same operating system, whether Alias or otherwise, which is pretty much impossible, you still need to provide surface smoothing data for each component, or heaven forbid the vehicle as a whole. Surface smoothing is very specialised and time consuming, and (the smoothed data) is invariably only approved once a full size 3D model has been cut, checked and approved. Now you're looking at big big money. It's a bit like Brexit, the devil is in the detail, and in the end is more complicated will cost way more than you ever imagined. At best a CNC machine may provide passable data to cut a small scale model, but no more than that. Those Revel and Triang toys were just handmade models made from a few adjusted 1:43 dimensions and reference photographs - they can't be scaled up.
f pollock

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Rob Ė I agree that there is variability between cars, especially between cars which have had restoration work carried out. I canít quite believe there is 7 degrees camber tolerance at the front suspension though. Very quick hand calc suggests that youíd need to shorten the top ďwishboneĒ 25-28mm to achieve 7 deg variation at the wheel. I believe the factory achieved much higher tolerance than that on suspension pickup points. I suspect those extremes were either incorrectly measured, or perhaps on cars which had suffered front end damage.

A computer game model isnít really what Iím after, but it's interesting, which games have a Midget that you can drive??

Prop Ė If I ever achieve a model complete enough for RP printing, then Iíll get one printed for you at your local RP shop.

F.Pollock Ė I think you might be reaching for the stars, Iím not trying to recreate all the tooling to manufacture a Midget body! Actually Iím not suggesting what other people might use the data for, but I would personally use it when designing parts for my car. Say for example I wanted to make an aluminium boot lid or bonnet, Iíd want a buck of the inner surface, and maybe even a hammer form. If I had that surface in CAD, even as a facet model then I could design the sections of the buck in minutes, and have them laser cut. Currently Iím designing a roll cage, how much easier would that be with the body shell available to design around? If you donít have the original CAD data then itís very common in industry to parts scanned. On a less industrial level, have a look at what these guys do:

http://3dengineers.co.uk/3d-scanning/

The point about the global CSY is a non-issue. Decide where youíd like this to be, perhaps the intersection of the floor and a bulkhead on the centreline of the car, and make sure you get this area scanned along with the other surfaces that you want. Yes most CAD systems canít work with native files from another system, that is what universal model formats such as .stl .iges parasolid etc. are for.
Tom_R2E3

Thanks dom

I had forgotten about " those toys" but they are the size of hot wheels minuture cars...i was wanting something like a reveel plastic model car kit in 1:24 scale so i can replicate my personal midget

Prop
1 Paper

Hey Tom,


I wouldnt take any our comments to be negitive but rather exploritary....we are an old group with life long members so we tend ti have our own language with in a language

Its an interesting idea for sure and is certianly cutting edge and i for one as im sure the others where not exactly sure to what ends of means you were going with this ... as im sure we all adapted your idea to what our personal thoughts where as to how it can be used and what we have found to be the limitations of the tech to what it was we wanted to achive

As an example... rob mentioned neg chamber in the suspention ... what rob was referancing was modification... the abilty to modify with in the set parameters of the cad program... by using a popular aftermarket suspention system known as frontline to achive the 6 degree neg chamber along with peter king wishbones

F.p. refersnced the complexity and scalability for various applications

As to your own needs as an engenerring tool... i would expand on that into the next generation and employ both virtual and augmented reality

Imagine having 5 camshafts and testing them in augmented reality

Having a fsctory midget as your base line in virtual set up to a certian track following a certian path then changing the camshaft spec and rerunning the simulation as augmented to see the end effects...all without ever buying a camshaft or turning a wrench

The best of all worlds, westher as a engineering tool, a video game, or a model toy

Btw... grand theft auto, and a wii councel auto racing game both have a spridget

Prop
1 Paper

Well, I'd be interested in an aluminium bonnet (with louvres in exactly the same place as my steel bonnet has. I'd also be interested in wing vents exactly the same as Carl Bintcliffe's (especially since I've lost the photo I had of them to copy).

I would have thought the real value of a full body scan is that you could model in CFD.
Daniel

You know danial

You could design that in virtual reality with TOMS (3D) program, then un it thur augmented reality wind tunnel and see what kind of result appear with little to no expense involved like a real life wind tunnel

Prop
1 Paper

Daniel can I tempt you with a CAD model of an aluminium bonnet?

CFD is an excellent use for it.
Tom_R2E3

This thread was discussed between 02/11/2017 and 05/11/2017

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.