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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - A post/lower hinge interior pictures?
|Having trawled the archives (fruitlessly again), does anyone have a set of pictures of the A post/lower hinge interior pictures? -- Skin off.|
It's been a while since I was last aquainted with the insides of my Sprite, and I didn't have a digital camera since I last had my skin off, -- my memory is a little bit rusty, just like the lower sections of my midget A posts.
My hinge brackets are well attatched, and there's nothing obvious by way of rust inside the car on the inner plate behind the A post. However, now I've got the wings off, I can see the hole under the hinge bracket visible inside the door jam, goes all the way through to the inner wing. See picture. It's the same on the drivers side too.
My fingers can't quite describe to me what's inside, hence I need a recently completed pic prior to the skin going on.
Anybody got a pic or 3 they can share with me, or point me to a decent picture showing the inner construction of the A post?
|Mine's in parts at the moment, but I can't take pictures untill monday.|
I'll post them monday afternoon.
Here's a before pic, but that doesn't clarify anything.
|Alex G Matla|
Here are the two panels on the bench
Taken as if you were looking from inside the car
|Same picture, but the panels separated|
Let me know if you need them and I'll work out a price
pete (@) brooklandsmg.co.uk
|Here's one of my A post repair panel before i put the skin on.
|and the front view...|
|Thanks everybody. These pics are just what I wanted. |
Alex, actually your picture agrees with my vague memory of the inside of my Sprite A post, and the feel of my fingers on my Midget A post. It contrasts with the newer replacement parts.
This is the Alex's top hinge and my lower hinge. I think the top and bottom are both the same.
When did it change? or are the repair parts incomplete?
|Not clear how you think they have changed? Top and bottom hinges both screw into a loose, plate retained by a "cage" to allow for adjustment. Pieces missing from the new parts that Peter and Graeme show are the horizontal reinforcing plates between the front and rear webs of the box section, adjacent to each hinge plate.|
|"Pieces missing from the new parts that Peter and Graeme show are the horizontal reinforcing plates between the front and rear webs of the box section, adjacent to each hinge plate."|
Yup that's exactly what I'm referring to. They don't seem to come with any of the replacement hinge plates or post parts.
Now I've seen those pictures, I can see that my lower reinforcements are only just attatched. I wanted to see a pic before deciding where to grind/cut in order to weld them back or get new brackets. But as they don't seem to come with the brackets, I'll just make something.
|I do know that the replacement outer piece is too wide and has to be made slimmer to keep in line with the outer sil.|
|Alex G Matla|
|The reinforcing pieces are only welded to the front and back webs, not to the inner footwell wall or the outer finishing panel. Make them yourself!|
The other thing is that I think that the original outer finishing panel is not one with the front vertical web. So you can build up the inside of the box section, add in the horizontal reinforcing brackets and paint it all. Then last of all add the outer finishing panel.
Other thing I do is to drill a 5/8" hole in the top of the sill directly below the A post. This is to allow water to drain away and avoids the dreaded rusting of the hinges as has occurred on the Maroon One. Only works of course if you have good drainage designed into your sill as well!
|Position of drainage hole.|
(borrowing Graeme's photo, thanks!)
I agree about the drainage too, but I'm not so sure my sills would be up to it, as they appear be original and I have no idea what the insides are like.
Although thinking about. See picture below. what if a plastic pipe was inserted all the way through the sill? sealed around the edges, and emerging say 1/4 inch below the sill.
Then any water will simply pass right through.
The same could be done behind the front wing, just in front of the A post.
Whoops forgot picture.
I would also seal the lower wing edge to stop any crap getting in.
|Yes, I guess that plastic tubes like that would work. But might be quite awkward to build in. |
My sills have a series of enlarged drainage holes drilled through the underneath flat section. Probably allow some crap in. I guess I should have formed some sort of shields to deflect road spray from entering, but on balance I think they work ok.
|Funny I've never thought to do it before.|
The tops of the sills behind the wings often rust through because of all the wet crap that can't escape, and the insides of the a post get eaten from inside and out. Terrible design omission really.
looking at the pics on mine below, it looks like the holes from one side to the other on the a posts, saved the sills from rotting through from the top, since all the water just runs right through.
|Are those strands of MIG welding wire in there? - Someone done some previous repairs in the area perhaps?|
The issue I struggle with on these sorts of areas is how to protect bare metal. Where possible I paint the insides of box sections (sills, chassis rails, A and B posts etc) with a heavy zinc rich paint before final closing off. But one still has to leave bare metal along the edges to be welded. I spray these with a weld-through primer but it is poor protection compared to the other stuff I use. And then of course the heat from welding will at the very least cause localised damage to the paint protection, even the weld through primer.
Other things I do are:
Try and modify to avoid rust traps, and to encourage water to run off.
Add extra drainage holes at various points,
Seam weld exposed flanged edges in addition to spot or plug welds,
Always use a semi-hardening seam sealer on every overlapped joint.
|Yup agree with all of the Guy, especially sealing the sills completely so that nothing can get in. The front an rear end fillers are terrible traps, so on my Sprite I filled them in.|
I've been pondering the problem of internal paint too.
I think the only solution is a removable internal inspection panel that perhaps you could spray through after welding. -- As long as it didn't weaken the structure of course.
Take the front wings for example. I don't see why there couldn't be an access panel in the footwell side wall. This would allow inspection, cleaning and internal painting. You can fill the A post with paint or waxoil via the door swith cable. And the sills could be sprayed through a removable plate in the inner sills.
I'm going to experiment on the Midget.
I hadn't noticed that strand of whatever it is. Maybe a mig strand, I'll have to check, but I think it's just a bit of vegetation of some kind. You wouldn't believe the amount of crap that came out. It looked like manure.
|Reactivated, as now the repairs to my Midget are under way.|
My first post in this thread shows how my a-post looked from the outside. The lower hinge felt solid enough, but what looked like the lower hinge reinforcing was peeking through, and there were holes either side of the A-post. I was thinking of just filling them by welding a plate over the holes, but as we all know, nothing rust coloured is as innocent as it looks on a Spridget. That and the other "surprises" I had in the footwell, meant that more investigation was needed. This and another thread convinced me to cut off the outer skin. So off came the lower section of the outer skin.
The rust was confined to the lower section in the region of the lower hinge. The sills appear to have been replaced at some time, and this seems to have been done with the A-post intact. Hence the the sill upright wasn't continuous, -- stopping outside the a-post, and there was a gap at the rear edge of the sill, where it meets the inner a-post wall. Water had run down this gap over time, and eaten into the inner sill in the footwell. at least it saved the sills from rusting, even if the front floor pan suffered.
Apart from adding drainage (see other thread A-post drainage), all I'm doing is repairs as needed. I see no need to strip the lot off. I'm remaking the rest of the lower hinge, and hinge reinforcing, replacing the rest of the a-post, and the flange on the A-post, then refitting either the existing section of skin, or I'll make a new section. I could buy the repair sections cheaply enough, but I like the satisfaction of making them.
|The other thing I'm going to do is brace the check strap bracket inside the a-post. On this midget the door must have been opened vigorously at some point, and the check strap bracket had distorted the a-post. But really they aren't that strong to begin with.|
I thought, I read about someone doing this modification before, and that's why I thought of it, but can't find any reference to it now.
In my picture the a-post is bent outwards. That's after I bent it back. Prior to that it was bent in by about 1/4"
I'm going to make a triangular brace section inside the a-post to stop it happening again.
This thread was discussed between 07/12/2012 and 09/06/2013
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.