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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Adjustable anti roll (sway) bar

Hi all

Just wanted to share the latest development on the budgetmidget, it's an adjustable anti roll bar.

Some of you may remember that a while ago I bought a fatter bar, which while I was fitting I discovered that the mounts were out of line and the original bar had a big twist in it. I've had the fatter bar fitted for a bit and not been happy with the harshness of the ride, or the fact it was really close to the wishbone due to aforementioned twist.

So I've done 2 things, I've extended the bar ends which increases the leverage andeffectively softens the bar, while moving the mounts further forward. So the mounts are strong, I've incorporated the mounts for the bumper / towing eye into the new arb mount.

The mounts are about 2 inches closer together because of this, and the whole bar is about 1.75 inches further forwards.

I've got some options for bar stiffness, ranging from soft to harder than it would be if normally mounted. The bar extenders ause the big bolt through the arb, and little machined aluminium spacers between the other two bolts to stop the thing rotating. Didn't really want to drilled hole in the bar!

First test has revealed that this has mad a huge difference, gone is the harshness, car feels supple and incredibly stable. Some if that'll be the removal of the twist, but I'm pretty pleased how it turned out. Pics to follow once I've resized them :)
Rob Armstrong

The bar extender

Rob Armstrong

Mount adapter bracket, picking up bumper mounting holes and original ARB mount holes

Rob Armstrong

arm extender in place

Rob Armstrong

and finally from the other side.

The bar is now completely flat; (front back parallel with the ground) it wasn't before, due to the car being lowered.

Rob Armstrong

Rob,

Very cool... my only concern would that (ball and stick figure) section between the wishbone and the ARB...with the amount of force it has to endure I ""could be"" short lived in its bushings and pull apart

But yeah, I like it, very creative

Dont forget to reinforce your mountings on the chassis rail or they will rip out

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

They're still the standard drop links Prop - they should be good. If they do ruin themselves I'll get some rose joints and make some better drop links.

The second Image shows how I don't need to reinforce the original mounts, I've got a much bigger bracket on (the two brownish bolt heads you can see are the original ARB mounting locations)
Rob Armstrong

Now I get the 2nd image,

Thats a great modification... I like that, simple and elegant ....

To be honest I didnt get the concept of what you were doing orginally in the 2nd photo...im assuming the bolts are grade 8

Id think with the mountings of the ABS, being as thin as they are, shear force on the hardware of your bracket would be greatly reduced

Drop links... thank you, I had a blank in my noodle, my personal opinion, there a good starting point to see what happens... instead of rose hymn joints, id go with the chevy S-10 pick up truck control bushings .

The new arb rod ive got (still sitting in a box) has them...there are some referances to the S-10 as drop links in the archives ... ill see if I can post a few photos tonight of what I have

Sadly, im working today

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

At the risk of giving nigel a full blown rabbies siezure melt down

Id carry a spare pair of drop links with you in the boot, ...just incase, there is separation from its ball and stick in the stock drop link

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Rob, that's really impressive. But, like Prop, I'd be worried that the aluminium blocks in the extenders will soon wear and make the assembly loose; on hard cornering there's quite a bit of weight transferring to those soft ally blocks. I would have thought a 3mm welded steel 'U' section or box-section, about the length of the ARB-end, that bolts around the end of the ARB would be sturdier; especially if the end of the ARB was ground parallel so the fit was really tight.
Nick Nakorn

Yeah, I'll see how they do. The ally blocks are slightly wedged, so they clamped up very hard against the end of the bar when I tightened the whole thing up. If it ever goes loose it'll be bad news, but I'll keep an eye on it. Add it to the list of things to check every so often!
Rob Armstrong

I got to tell you rob,

I really love the concept...ive been thinking about this for several hours now,really this concept can be applied to any roll bar and make it a one size fits all dia. Weather a 1/4 inch diameter or a 2inch diameter


Its an impressive piece of engineering.


It really comes down to the leverage being applied as to weather if succeeds or blows up

But really unless your really pushing it to the max in a hair pen turn, I dont see a big issue should it failure

I wish id thought of it.

Seriously... you need to take some precaustions to protecting your idea, some kind of registered documantation or at least a patant indroduction

I could see front stealing your idea and selling it as there own.

Prop

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I got to tell you rob,

I really love the concept...ive been thinking about this for several hours now,really this concept can be applied to any roll bar and make it a one size fits all dia. Weather a 1/4 inch diameter or a 2inch diameter


Its an impressive piece of engineering.


It really comes down to the leverage being applied as to weather if succeeds or blows up

But really unless your really pushing it to the max in a hair pen turn, I dont see a big issue should it failure

I wish id thought of it.

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

you'll struggle to make a soft bar harder with it, as the bar'll start hitting the wishbones.

an altogether more satisfactory way of doing it is for the bar manufacturers to make bars with multiple holes in the ends.

Some are available for Evos, which is where I got the idea from.

I had a chat with JLH about the development, if there is enough interest he might think about getting some made. But even then, the front mounting point adaptors as they are now are not that complex (just angle with holes in the right places) and not beyond an enthusiastic drill wielder. Cant vouch for the simplicity of a developed one though, and there is most probably a better way of doing the bar extenders.
Rob Armstrong

But....
My big problem with the ARB is that it is mounted under the chassis legs.
And mine being a bit low I can't really get a jack under it.

So combine this with mountng it over the legs and you'll have a winner imo ;)
Onno K

Will Corry does an 'over the legs' ARB mount system. I had a look at doing it but my oil take off for the K goes right through that space..

I've got little ramps that the car goes up before I can get a jack under it..

Rob Armstrong

Onno... id think robs design would be easy enough to do over the top of the rails and probably be easier to mount that way because of the various adjustment he has incorperated in

Infact id think attaching a bar between the 2 chassis adapter plates with somekind of adjuster turnbuckle nut would be a great idea to act as a secondary crossmember bar and help better tie the 2 sides togather...granted expermential kind of a take off idea that rob had several years ago about placing a turnbuckel rose hymn joint bar between the pivoit bolts of the frontline tube shock kit....which I plan to try when I do the big front end rebuild

Prop

Prop and the Blackhole Midget

like this Prop...

joins the strut tops together. Anthony Cutler has had one for a while.

Mine's a bit prototypey and non adjustable. And needs a paint.

p.s. I've fixed the slight coolant leak...

Rob Armstrong

Update! The bar's not moved at all. Those aluminium spacers are still as they were, no change there. Stood up to a load of abuse. Strut brace is still there too.
Rob Armstrong

That all looks ace! I'm impressed at you ingenious ideas,! (Speaking of which, I'd really like some more info if possible in your from suspension set up, telescopic damper stuff and triangulation arm, what's best way to contact?)

Have you tried the different settings and can you notice much difference??
Karl Bielby

Thanks :) details are on www.robsmidget.co.uk :) if you want more info and have Facebook happy to share pictures etc. Or email me firstname dot lastname 86 at Gmail dot com :)

The bar is noticeable in its different settings. Too soft for track backed off, too hard for the road on tight setting.

The strut brace is interesting too. I bolted it up with the car on its wheels, then when I jacked it up, I couldn't get the bolts out...

The front top link is great. Has been on for maybe 7 years, no wear evident in the bottom threaded joint since then. King pin bushes only now starting to get a bit loose, again after 7 years of abuse (off the ground, sideways everywhere etc) telescopic dampers and top link transformed the front end control.
Rob Armstrong

Very interesting! Shows how much flex/sag there is in the chassis in that plane. Wonder if that will fit with a 1500 lump in the way..

Cool il send a fb add over and message you. Iv read your blog to death now haha, very interesting read. Love cheap methods of doing expensive things that don't need to be so expensive!

Cheers
Karl
Karl Bielby

Arise from the archives for an update.

All is still fine.

No play in the alloy blocks, hasn't pulled out of the chassis.

As you were.
Rob Armstrong

Put a patant on that porn image idea, and ither sell it or start manufacturing it for rhe masses

Its a great design prototype and idea...i like it

Prop
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This thread was discussed between 20/09/2014 and 10/09/2017

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