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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Alternative expansion tank

I am looking to move my cooling system expansion tank (1973 RWA) to the area just under the left hand wing next to the wiper motor , so I am looking for a tank something like the one fitted to this neat K conversion.

What I need is a tank that is shallow Vee in shape. Does any one know of such a tank ??
Ian



Ian Webb '73 GAN5

Probably a trip to the local u-pick and pull salvage yard or ebay would be your best source

Id look also at windshild wiper solution bottles

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

"Id look also at windshild wiper solution bottles"

Prop, how do you fit a pressure cap to one of those?
Dave O'Neill 2

Volvo has some nice looking ones...

http://www.partsforvolvosonline.com/index.php?cPath=608_1043

The second one on the list may be best, its pringle can shaped so would fit in the V nicely with some brackets





Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

What about one for an old Range Rover:
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-PCF101590P
(Also ask Dunsfold Land Rover www.dunsfold.com)

Or the one fitted to the lots of British Leyland vehicles e.g. MGB V8, Austin Allegro, Freight Rover and Austin 1100:
http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?40,2462536

(Or see if an MPI Mini one is appropriate, search 'expansion tank' at www.minispares.co.uk)

Perhaps Mk2 VW Polo or Golf? (Eurocarspares)

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Ian

I now realise that one of my suggestions for a tank is MGB but also forMkIII and MkIV Sprites and respective midgets! (Sorry, I have a 948 Sprite tunnel vision)
M Wood

Thanks Dave,

I had forgotten about how the cooling system is structured....I revamped mine sometime back to a more modern system.

Thats going to be a tough one... it might be worthwhile to have a tank custom made, the nasty thing about what IAN wants is the amount of pressure it has to endure....im guessing at least 20psi as normal pressure is around (15psi ???)

Agian sorry for my confusion

I wonder if something couldnt be hammed togather out of some schedule 40/60 pvc house sewage drian pipe... it comes in 2 inch to 6inch dia in most big box stores and a wide array of fittings that can be modded up... and it can easily handle the cooling systems psi, as iv made potato cannons out of them in my younger days

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Ian I used a tank from a 1500 and bent a couple of pedestal brackets to mount it on.
Dave

Dave Pratt

Mine is the original copper/brass? one in the same position as Dave's.

Er Dave, is that a V8?!
john payne

John yes it's a v8 there was a thread earlier in the year called " there's always room for a little extra" or something like that.

Dave Pratt

Good grief,

Thats insane... but looks great from what I can see, are you going to install dual turbos or just a big hulking blower sticking out of the bonnet

There is a guy on the mg experiance site doing a chevy 327 for the past 2 years...its almost there

Is that a range rover? It appears to fit nicely

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Dave, that looks interesting, I'll have a look for that thread later. Much better choice than one of those naff K series jobs!
john payne

Guys Thanks for the replies. Still havnt found the shallow vee type of tank I am looking for. Some of the newer designs do not appear to accept a pressure cap that is neccessary. So one question I still have; the tank on the K Series that I posted does not have a pressure cap, so does the K have a PRV somewhere else ?? Or how does it control its pressure ? ( I think I should know the answer but my mind is blank right now !!)

I will keep searching, but until then I will use my Plan B which is to mount my existing expansion tank in the same way that is shown in Dave's photo; with a bracket down onto the top of the LH footwell. Also I observe from the MGB installation of the same tank ; that it doesnt need to be perfectly upright to operate well, which is usefull.

Ian
Ian Webb '73 GAN5

Ian, If that K uses an MGF tank (looks similar) then it *is* a pressure cap - but not as we know it Jim. It looks like a simple plastic screw-on but it has a pressure release valve built into the lid with a tiny hole in the centre. We had an F for 10 years and I remember the hullabaloo when some caps started failing prematurely and systems would not hold pressure, leading to suspicion this was causing HGF, well before the gasket and hotspot issues were fully understood. IIRC the 'improved' caps were marked with a dab of yellow paint.
David Smith

What about haveing the rad reworked at a rad shop to take a rad cap .... then you can use any expansion tank or plastic bottle you want

I cant imagine it would be that tough or expensive to weld/braze a fitting over the bolt hole that can take a standard common rad cap

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

The kind of modern cap we are talking about is:
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/GRC1184.aspx

The MPI Mini expansion tank may be of use for Ian too which is linked on the above page, but expensive

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Yes, the MGF cap, definitely has a pressure relief in it. We find the most common failing with the caps is failure to release as specified (15psi), and check the cap of every car which comes into the workshop. Some get to 2.5 bar (37psi) and still haven't released, at which point we stop before we blow our test rig apart! Low pressure relase is much less common.

The principal problem with the high pressure is that it causes hoses to split suddenly, which can prove to be expensive.

The most common cause of this failure appears to be old coolant, which has in turn allowed rust to be generated in the system. We think it is the rust which is causing the failure. Clean coolant don't have the proeblem anywhere near as much.

BTW: Beware of aftermarket caps on this one, there are some rubbish ones about. Stick to genuine.
Paul Walbran

thanks Mike & Paul for confirming my memory's not fading too much just yet!
David Smith

I think the tank in the first pic is from a vw golf. I had an issue when I first started mine with the cap valve jammed open so it would boil over. New genuine capsized it after non oem one fell to bits. I carry a spare...
Rob Armstrong

Ian,

If it is not too big, a tank from a 126 chassis Benz might work. It is pretty much a wedge shape. This link and attached pic are for an 83 300SD, but I think they were the same for a lot of years in a lot of Benzs.

Charley

http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-engine-coolant-recovery-tank-1265001549oe

C R Huff

Charley

Some times you really amaze me,

How did you manage to pull that on out if your hat. Thats not exactly off the shelf common knowledge for that expansion tank

Great find, regardless of how you came about it.

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Easy Prop. I've put around 300,000 miles on two old Benz 300SD. My first one is in the pic below.

Charley

C R Huff

Charley

Nice plane - an old Aeronca or Taylorcraft? You fly?

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

You think thats cool, you shoumd see his old tractor

Charley has alot of fun toys

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Hello Mike,

You have a good eye. You got it right on the first guess. It is a pre-war 1942 Aeronca 65CA Super Chief. I have been flying, but it is about time for me to give it up and sell the plane. Lately I haven't used it enough to justify the cost of keeping it. The annual should be done in about a week and then it's time to put it on the sales block.

Prop, I did get the exhaust sorted out on the Model A John Deere, and it did its mowing duties this past year. The 2-ton 46 Chev is also doing well, and I expect to go grab a few ton of gravel with it soon to patch up the road.

Charley

C R Huff

Hi Charley

That's a great ship. Have you thought about group ownership (syndicate) or a smaller experimental aircraft rather than give up flying?

I used to fly an open cockpit glider -
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingsby_T.21 - including spins and wing overs


Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Ian,

Did you find a suitable tank yet?

Mike,

I did put a little thought into that, but I am kind of in a mind set to cut down on the stuff I own. If I were in a place where hangers were less expensive I would be less inclined to sell. After I get things simplified I might consider getting back into planes with a metal plane that would be better suited to being tied down outside. Interesting glider, quite a wingspan, though that may be normal for gliders. It always amazed me that over here the glider competitions do runs from Pennsylvania down to Georgia and back on a single tow.

Charley
C R Huff

Ian, that expansion tank looks exactly like the one fitted to the Rover 216 (1992-1995). The Rover 214 that uses the same K series engine as fitted to that Midget, may also have the same expansion tank.
Lindsay (Rover 216 owner!).
Lindsay Sampford

Lindsay

Thanks for the info,
I will take a look at a Rover 216 type

Charley, no....still looking for just right one. My plan B is to use the original one with a new bracket, like Dave's photo.

Ian
Ian Webb '73 GAN5

Ian.

If you still have my email address or phone number give me a shout.

If you can make a quick drawing I can build you one to suit.
Pete Moreland-Moore

Hi Pete
Thanks for the offer, its apreciated.

But I want to use period parts as they would have done in the sixties and seventies, so I will fit something more in keeping to preserve a more original style of underbonnet appearance.

In fact I can get fabricated tanks made at my workplace (for a drink !) so that isnt an issue. I just dont want modern new looking parts under my bonnet.

Thanks anyway

Ian
Ian Webb '73 GAN5

This thread was discussed between 13/11/2014 and 02/12/2014

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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