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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - ARRRRGH! F-ing Doors!

Ok, Prop style rant coming on!

Which chuffing idiot designed these damn doors? Four hours and achieved nothing but scratched paint chuffed seals and generally chuffing chuffed off!

Grrrrr! Swear swear swear swear!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cock bottom ar*e!

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

Probably should have posted in general as that had no technical content in what so ever!

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

Doors can be quite technical.

What's up?
Dave O'Neill2

The bits to go inside are too large and the holes are too small! ha ha

Getting the quarter light and side window glass in?!

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

The general principle is that you put all the bits loose inside the bottom of the door shell. And only then start to fix them in position.
Guy W

Yeah, I couldn't get them in to start with! Ha ha. Got it now. The swearing break helped a lot! :-D

Still bloomin' stupid though!

Malc.
M Le Chevalier

""Four hours and achieved nothing but scratched paint chuffed seals and generally chuffing chuffed off!""

Well theres your problem...youve only invest 4 hours....hahahaha

I am and many others im sure share your pain and still have clothing that cant get all the blood staining out

This is one of the toughest jobs ...I wish I could offer help but Guy has the inside track on this

One thing I can offer super glue works very well for cuts to fingers and hands, just pour in rubbing alcohol then press the super glue straight into.the cut and with in a couple minites you can put your hand back into the hidden rusted sharp metal hole.

Also ... take the door off the hings and onto a bench

Hang in there...its one of those things the more keep at it, the faster lady luck will smile upon you

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I am struggling for days now.... but I am getting there

- in order to get the 4-lights is: remove the rear glass guide, lift the glass and slide it together with the 4-light down

- do this while glass and 4-light are turned forwards

- should go in without power

arnold
a.o. arnold

M Le Chevalier,

Your going to have to work on your Prop rant! Though I did laugh pretty hard when I read your post. You need to add more random barn yard banging animal references with a sprinkle of politcal bitterness wrapped in general distrust of all and any religous authorities! When your done with that part, add subject drift....with NMC! Then youll have it!

Good luck with the doors,You will truly be an MG master when you have those assembled... Lots of steel wool to clean all the moving parts then coat the moving surfaces with lithium.
Steven Devine

Might need to eat the lithium to get me out of my door induced depression rather than putting it on the moving parts!

Malc.
M Le Chevalier

I effing hate the doors. My hands are too big and my fuse is too short. I had particular 'fun' with the furry strip across the top.
Rob Armstrong

Dont eat the lithium....thats how Prop got the way he is.......Did he ever tell you about the time aliens anal probed him? 100% pure lithium induced story!

Keep up the good work on the doors, you will get them done. I did my clutch and brake master today plus ran a new front brake line! YEA! Still have to do rear wheel cylinders and clutch slave!
Steven Devine

Ok, so 1/4 light in, how do you now get the window into the 1/4 light runner?

The effort this requires is perverse!

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

Yes....before I ate the litium and the probing alians (illegals) showed up I was just a gentle mild mannered country minister...hahaha

Something else that helps is a decent friend that has done a door glass...it helps with ideas, and getting pissed off

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Malcome

I wish for your sake I could remember...I was happy it went in that I didnt care how it got in

Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Heres the regulator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2bjyEgU6Gs
Steven Devine

Diagram of parts

http://www.limora.com/en/english-cars/austin-healey/sprite-and-midget/windscreen-side-screen-and-glass/door-glasses-quarter-light.html
Steven Devine

The last time I built a door, I made a step-by-step list of the order that I fitted all of the bits.

Damned if I can find it, though!
Dave O'Neill2

Cue Norm Kerr. He put the difinitive door assembly method on line, but I can't find the link.
C'mon Norm, we know you're out there.

Bernie.
b higginson

Thats right I forgot, norm did put that precedure up...

He posted it in someplace we would never lose it.

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I think this might be it...

http://www2.mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=97&subjectar=97&thread=2011011722092928011

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Okay...let me try that agian

http://www.mgexp.com/article/spridget-door-assembly.html

Prop

Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Malcolm you need a copy of MG Midget Reborn by Peter Berkin, he went through the pain you just have, then got it right and devoted a chapter to describing it in detail. Many years ago I copied the section for someone, it may have been Steve Clark.
David Smith

Good enough reason to by a early car with sidescreens.
Roy
R Mcknight

That's the one Prop. If Malcolm and others use that method,they will wonder why they ever worried about the job.

Bernie.
b higginson

Typically thorough and detailed instructions from Norman Kerr. Excellent! The only difference I do I is insert the quarterlight assembly loosely into the door before sliding the glass down into the door. Then bolt in the quarter light, then fit the glass into the front channel. I find that if I put the glass in first, then it gets in the way of the long "legs" of the quarterlight.
Guy W

Yeah I have seen Norms page and was following the instructions as best I could but still several large square pegs to fit in small round holes!

I managed to get the 1/4 light in with the window in the bottom of the door. But now I can't get the window into the runner. I think I need to pull the 1/4 light out again and slot the window in as the 1/4 light is pushed in but I don't know if this is why I was struggling before. i.e. the window was getting in the way of the 1/4 light.

Will have another swearing session tongight!

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

I think I add the rear runner after fitting the glass into the front runner, but I am not sure now.

I know one time I forgot to start off with fitting the handle and lock, and only came to do those after fitting the glass! Very frustrating being able to see where the little front bolt needed to go (through the glass) but impossible to get fingers to it! In the end I did manage it, by taping the nut to a long ratchet ring spanner held against the inside of the door with fingertips and then winding the whole handle around until the thread started.

Incidentally, an 8mm ratchet ring spanner is useful for those small nuts and bolts, and almost essential when it comes to fitting the padded door capping rail.
Guy W

Belive it or not... all that junk does actually fit into the door...haha

I secretly wonder if it wouldnt be easier to just bust the glass with a ball peen hammer then glue back the 100, 000 bits of glass inside the door...sure its a puzzle, but its -12 F outside, what else is there to do today....haahha

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Wow its 49f here...Feels like spring. Foggy as hell as the rain is melting the snow.

How did the build those doors quickly on an assembly line...It would be enough to make you quit the first day!
Steven Devine

Steven....

Think.about it... 30 - 50 years ago BMC was huge and at the same.time a huge spike in human / alien interaction.

How bmc doors are assembled plus a large increase in alien "Probing" of humans .... unrelated, Hmmm, I think not.


Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Hey Prop,
A couple of guys dropped by last night and wanted your home address...I didnt have it so they left this message below.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1hix4DDadE

Goodluck buddy!
Steven Devine

I think the guys who designed the BMC midget doors are now on the NASA Panel. Heres what they had to say!

The guy at the end of this vid reminds me of you!
:-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVjOVJv4MPY
Steven Devine

ROFLMAO.....

NOW that was funny... I can "get behind" nasa mission like that.

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Ignoring all the probing talk for just a moment, I think I have figured it out.

Whilst trying to fit the gittish clips to hold the top weather seals in place I dropped a few of them into the door. I thought I had rescued them all but it turns out I didn't. An odd clip in the bottom of the door was wedging against the window stopping me being able move it enough to get it into the runner!

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

Hmmmm....im going with NO,

most likely jesus dosnt like you...hahaha
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Guy! surely that should be 2BA not 8mm...
David Smith

Quite correct David, and I would normally be the first to cry "horror" at the very thought of using non imperial spanners on such an Imperial car. ;-)

But the ratcheting element is significant on this occasion and I don't have, and don't think they make, ratchet ring spanners to 2BA sizes. Or do they?
Guy W

Don't know if i was lucky are it is 40 working on aircraft on hard to reach places, but built up 2 doors in an afternoon using a copy of MG Midget Reborn by Peter Berkin, a bit fiddly but had worse jobs on tornados.

Before anyone else says it yes it would have been easier using a spanner.LOL
mark 1500 nearly on the road

21:20 Update:

Finally got the window into the runner. Yeah the gap is exactly the same size as the window so it too a fair bit of force then...

Bang! Crunch! Owwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! that was all my fingers getting smashed! Did anyone hear the scream?! (of pain not happiness!)
M Le Chevalier

I was over at mackays today and he was doing the same job on a customers car. Yes those little clips that hold the rubber glaze are rediculus. I remembered what guy said, just put it all in there loose and fit everything up. That advice worked like a charm, but you still needed an extra pair of hands to make it happen. Malcolm you should give yourself a good "thata boy when you finish!". Its not a job for someone that doesnt have patients!

Ill put in a good word for you with props alien friends and tell them youve been working to hard to be Probed! Ha ha ha!

Where the hell is Lawrence Slater while all this fun is going on?

Oh noooooo....Hmmmm.




Aliens?
Steven Devine

Oh, doors! I failed miserably when I tried to do one about five years ago. I haven't touched the car since.

This early heritage shell has slots in the door tops which are too narrow for all the gubbins to fit in. I think I'll have to cut, spread and re-weld the doors to make it all go together. Hence the short break from the job.

There is a slim chance the car will be back in the garage at home by Easter. Then the shouting can commence!
Clive Berry

Whats the problem?

"Refitting is the reverse of taking it off"

Like Haynes always describe it... :)


I had the Haynesbook with black white photo's and step by step procedure and the Peter Berkinbook.
Its still comes down to uor ability to fiddle it in. :)
A de Best

Now that the cuts and scratches have stopped bleeding, some thoughts on installing door mechanisms – quarter light assembly, side window wind mechanism and glass.

I’ve just succesfully built up both the doors on my Heritage shell rebuild – and as is always the case with the jobs one is most apprehensive about, it was pretty straightforward. I’m lucky enough to have a copy of “MG Midget Reborn” by Dr. Peter Berkin – worth its price for the step-by-step instructions on door build-up alone, so I pretty well followed his routine, and it worked.

For those that haven’t the benefit of the good doctor’s experience, here’s how it went. I had all components from my donor car, but the chromed quarter lights were in pretty poor shape. These were replaced with a set of later, stainless steel items bought from Ebay, which cleaned up like new, (I know, I know – not original to an August ’71 Midget, but then neither are the brake pads.) There are two tiny self-tapping screws (17H2503) on the lower front of the frame sides, which are always rusty and spoilt the look – these were the only items that were replaced on the quarter lights, along with the natty little rubber window stop corner blocks (AHA9986 for stainless steel, but unaccountably different for earlier quarter lights). I could have replaced the internal (quarter light glass to frame) seals but again they seemed in good nick, looked like a sod to install, and seemed unfeasibly expensive at £19 each side from Moss. The lower, quarterlight frame to door (AHA7746 / 7) rubber seals were replaced, as were the rubber / felt glass channel liners (AHA7162).

Obviously all items should be thoroughly cleaned up and greased before you start; old cruddy grease removed and new applied - aerosol spray white grease from Halfords is invaluable for this.

I started by fitting the door locks and exterior handles (which aren’t handed, by the way, so you can install with the cleanest / least scabby side uppermost) – new gaskets and Waxoyl behind these items.
Then the rear door slide was bolted loosely into place, 1 bolt at the top, 2 at the bottom [1]. I replaced the rubber / felt channel on these as well – and these rear ones should be glued into place – they have a habit of twisting and falling out otherwise. Apparently. Next, in went the quarter light (with new seal, don’t forget), but without the bottom securing bracket – this should be put loosely on to the slide once the quarter light is in the door. By the way – first check the threaded securing studs that stick out below the quarter lights. I discovered one of mine had a buggered thread as I was about to bolt everything up, and had to dismantle the lot again to get a die onto the thread to clean it through. So where were we? Oh yes – quarter light in, but not secured. Next it’s a new outer weather strip (AHA7634 / 5), held in place with seven vicious little clips on each side. I’m blessed with long, slim fingers, so was able to get them in place manually and tap home with a little hammer – but for those with hands like hams, the tip is a curled strip of metal to hold the clips in place (try an old hacksaw blade by all means – mine just snapped). Unbelievably, you can even buy a tool for this from Moss – what will they think of next? My little clips (GHF 1560) were actually too tight to grip weather strip and metal edge together – I ended up opening each one up slightly with a screwdriver.

Next came the window winder regulator. Insert but don’t try and attach for the moment. This bit of kit could actually be used as an instrument of torture by some despotic third-world dictatorship, so careful how you chuck it around. It’s also very easy to get it all scissored up and crossed over itself – so make sure it’s laid out correctly before installing. Scissored. Hmmm - nice word. Having said that, it is easy to install through the largest door aperture [2] if you fold it up on itself, but make a mental note of how to unfold it again! Because my doors were lovely and new with tons of Waxoyl in there, I slipped a couple of large thick sheets of paper inside the door to protect the inside of the skin. But then I’m precious like that. The glass, with slide channel attached was then introduced in to the door from above, being careful to avoid damage to / displacing the lovely new weather strip. By the way – it’s good to keep the glass attached to its slide channel if possible – its position along the bottom of the glass is fairly crucial to the smooth rise and fall of the glass between the two runners.

Now the tricky bit. First, engage the sprung-loaded roller bits at the top of the regulator into the correct slots on the glass slide channel – so the mechanism is now engaged with the glass. Then the winder mechanism needs to be eased forward, the aim being to just hook the 6-sided winder handle bolt onto its correct hole in the inner door (the upper of the 2 smallest holes towards the front of the door) [3]. This is difficult – much manoeuvring and jiggling of quarter light and regulator in order to squeeze it past. But once the winder bolt is hooked, you’re on the home run. The lower square plate on the regulator should now fall roughly in the right place, and can be loosely secured with its 4 bolts [4] (it only fits one way – rotate into correct alignment). Now the winder mechanism itself can be bolted into place [5] – again, loosely – and the quarter light should now sit down hard against the door. Check that the glass is properly located in both front and rear channels, and start to secure the quarter light. I got the 2 long bolts directly beneath the quarter light [6] started first, then got the others (2 at top leading edge of door [7] and 2 on the bottom bracket of the front slide [8]) loosely in to place, before concentrating on the top 2. As the quarter light starts to pull down hard against the door, check that the lips of the new seal are snug up the sides of the quarter light, and not trapped underneath. Once the top 2 bolts were tight I then tightened up the other 4.
Now that satisfying moment when you should be checking that the window winds up and down smoothly, but can’t find the winder handle. It’s in the loft. Look – in that Sainsbury’s cardboard box behind the water tank. I then progressively tightened all of the aforementioned winder (and rear channel) securing bolts, while winding the window up and down. Job done.

Finally I installed the inner felt weather brush (AHA7719 / 20) – 6 more tortuous little clips – AHA7838 but just as nasty . I haven’t bothered with the window stop bolt (stops the window winding too high) as it seems to stop in the right place anyway. There should be a lower stop bracket screwed to the door bottom with a lump of felt on top, but the old one was a real rust trap so I won’t bother – I’ll probably just “stick” a correctly sized chunk of rubber down there with Waxoyl.

Finally finally, clean grease, Waxoyl and blood from the glass, stand back and reflect on just how clever you are.

It’s only now, with the angle of the quarter lights finally and irrevocably set, that you can attempt installation of the windscreen and frame. And then the dashboard. But they’re different stories.

Peter Berkin’s book let me down at the last minute. He closes the chapter with “By now, Sunday lunch was just about ready and the smell of roast pork was drifting through the garage”. This didn’t seem to happen with me – and when I pointed it out to Sue, her eyes narrowed, and her lips made that thin, crinkled shape that I find so difficult to interpret.
Steve Clark

....and the pic to which the text refers...



Steve Clark

Mr Clark,
Thats one of the best technical posts Ive ever read on the BBS....Nice job!
Steven Devine

The pleasure's mine, Mr Devine.

;-)
Steve Clark

Phew done!*

*Actually about 90% done and gave up! Bigger fish to fiddle with at the moment!

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

Funny, thats what the aliens said to prop! :-)
Steven Devine

Steven, thats just rude....

NOW I want to commit .... ""SUICIDE""

Hahaha

No seriously... I want to commit the act of suicide ....on my car, the doors

For several months ive been kicking the idea of converting the doors in a suicide hing

Heres my thinking... use the same hinges on the front of the door and put them on the back.

Install the latch pin on the A post and the female part of the latch on the door its self

Then id use an electric lock not mechanical and use the push botton of the old handle to lock and unlock the door...that way the door looks orginal

Then id use electric windows from moss to avoid the mess malcome is dealing with

I doulbt id install locks... just an electric latch that would go on the front of the door

Maybe even make the door latchless and control it with magnets

So any body have experiances, ideas, or insight

Thanks

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

So any body have experiances, ideas, or insight

Yes, I think JFKs old limo might fit the bill, you may have to change your thoughts from suicide to assination. Your going to have to come up with your own trigger man unless you can figuire away to run a string to the right moving parts....
Steven Devine

thanks steven

I can always count on at least one 2nd opinion from the grassy knoll area of the bbs

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

In seriousness... my thought is to leave the door handle and push button but to convert the factory push button to an electric switch to un latch the door at its front in order to open...that way it looks orginal, but still a sucide door

It seems doable is the scary thing, but if it was ... then why isnt everyone doing it??

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Why would you want to? The clue's in the name.
Steve Clark

Why suicide doors...

Vanity and Cool factor tops the list, and the mechanical creative art is a big feather that grabs my attention but function sure plays a big part... ease of getting in and out, esp. the older I get

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

As wierd as it seems it is a cool idea. Go find a t series car and sit in it. Thats the way the doors are stock. It just adds to the fun. I bet your midget will blow those old 50s MGs off the road!
Steven Devine

This thread was discussed between 05/01/2014 and 08/01/2014

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.