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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Bearings! Get your bearings!

Just got some new inner bearings from here:

http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p554005/34/LJT25+Angualar+Contact+Special+Ball+Bearing+25x52x15mm/product_info.html

Seemed a reasonable price and advertised as correct (old) bearing number.

The bearings that turned up are 73205 marked. But I checked the important inner radius with my (admitedly cheap and a bit shoddy) radius gauges. The radis is about 2 - 2.5 mm and looks a lot bigger radius than the standard 1mm on some other bearings I have around.

Could be on to a winner. 4 left in stock apparently if you guys are quick! ;-)

Merry weekend all!
Malcolm
Malcolm Le Chevalier

You'll need to copy/paste that address.

Thanks, Malcolm!

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

Just a word of warning. I'm a mechanical engineer and as such have been buying bearings for all sorts of reasons from simplybearings for ages. Unless you see the name SKF or NKE or another decent Japanese bearing manufacturer next to the name of the bearing then its a cheap budget Chinese bearing - it won't last - it might not even be to the right tolerance. If you're only doing 1000 miles a year then it will be an okay replacement, but for decent bearings get Japanese (or western Europe - the Germans make good bearings too)
C L Carter

Cheers for the heads up C, what about ones stamped fafnir England?

Malcolm
Malcolm Le Chevalier

Fafnir bearings are old school! I think they are made my Timkins now... but they are made in the UK and I'm sure will be very good. I imagine thats probably the type of bearing that went into the midgets when they were made!

Today though, you can't beat SKF or RHP imo. NKE very good too.

C L Carter

it doesn't say whether they are face adjusted, but here is a way to check it yourself before assembly:

if the bearings are not confirmed to be “face adjusted”, you can inspect them like this:
- load the outer race 5.5lbs axially.
- measure the levelness of the inner race x outer race (thrust face of outer race must be 0.000 ~ 0.001” above the inner race).


Norm
Norm Kerr

C.L.C

The original bearings were RHP and they are not in existance anymore.

RHP became NSK who make excellent bearings although I would be surprised if Timken make all their bearings in the UK? Like most manufacturers they will source different bearings from different manufacturing bases. Small bearings are generally made in Japan.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Hmmm. So what is the concencus? Are these cheapies the real McCoy?
Lawrence Slater

Good question Lawrence

IMO if the bearing is stamped 73205 then it is not face adjusted and when fitte into the hub will have play in the wheel.

If it is stamped 34LJT25 then it will be NOS RHP and will be the real McCoy.

However Malcolm has indicated that it is stamped 73205 and would therefore be the cheap alternative to the genuine article.
I would gladly supply you all with as many 73205 as you want for less than 29 quid!
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

You can still get RHPs - they're not being made anymore... but some places will have bought out all the old stock. I know my university stores had loads of large wheel bearing sized RHPs.
C L Carter

Ransome & Marles (the R is left over from RHP) is still in existence, though they are a part of the NSK empire now (and they also trade under the name Orinoco).

They do still make our 34LJT25, and our 3MJT17 bearings, but because of the small lot sizes the price is adjusted up accordingly.

I keep hoping that the big boys (Moss, MGOC, et. al) will get on board and start ordering proper front wheel bearings from these guys and bring the price down a bit by volume.



Norm
Norm Kerr

Norm,
If we all do what I did then the big boys will get on board. I ordered bearings from them and checked with them that they were the correct bearings for the car and that they would fit without any problem or play. They have to say yes. I then fitted them and found that they have play in them. I then remove them and send them back and ask for my money back as they are faulty/incorrect bearings. Removing the bearings render them u/s as they invariably split. It is a pain for us but after a while they will realise.
I then buy the correct ones from R & M.
Dave
Dave Brown

How about this?

Someone drafts a letter, that explicitly and concisely explains the problem with the "equivalent" bearings.

That letter is the template, that we ALL use to email/snail mail to ALL suppliers, to explain to them that they are adverstising and selling a product that is contravening the sale of goods act. In that, the product is wrongly described as suitable for Spridgets, and is therefore not fit for purpose.

Would this concentrate their minds?

Wouldn't they have to describe the bearings fit more accurately?

That is, they would have to say, front wheel bearings for Spridgets, that don't actually fit, -- fit at your own risk.

Nobody would buy them, and the retailers might then seek a new supplier.
Lawrence Slater

Or perhaps we should alert the Trading Standards Institute to the dangerous bearings being sold by these people.
Dave
Dave Brown

Norm

I honestly do not know where you get the information from?

R and M do not exist they were part of NSK. The people you have been dealing with (Orinoco) are using the name because as stated above bought out the old stock and are selling those at high prices.

It would be possible to have modern bearings machined to suit the application however and let me state this AGAIN!!!

The problems we have in the UK are play in the wheel bearings caused because the basic bearings are NOT face adjusted. This can be overcome by fitting a better quality bearing that comes face adjusted and the numbers I have supplied on many occassions.

However Since I did this work our american friends have identified another issue which might be a machining problem that stops the inner bearing from seating fully with the stub axle face. Whilst I have not witnessed this it maybe the case although I am not sure it would necessarily be a big issue. The guy who first noted such a problem (Tom) had such a severe case that when assembled the disk fouled the caliper. Now I would suggest something else was wrong. I have now fitted a good number of the 40 degree bearings without issue and even fitting the cheapies for many years previously have never had a problem with disk alignment, suggesting to me that inner radius may not be such an issue.

Bob Turbo Midget England

I don't agree that Orinoco are selling NOS. The bearings they sent me certainly don't look like NOS, and there was a lead time before they "made a new run of them" (their words, not mine). I think they are making (or having made) new bearings to the old spec, or maybe they have NOS of bearing parts and are assembling them, I don't know. I haven't got around to fitting mine yet, but I don't know why they'd make me wait 3 weeks if it was just a pack and ship of NOS.

Mine certainly are labelled as having 2mm radius, and, to be honest, at least looking at them (don't have anything to measure them with) have a significantly bigger radius than the "wrong" ones the usual suspects sell.
OrangeSpyderMan

Get 'em fitted OSM. :)

We're all holding our breath to see if these fit without play. If they do, then the expensive ones, will suddenly become very overpriced.
Lawrence Slater

Further to my first post, the one hub I have so far taken apart so far had the 'proper' bearings in 34LJT25 and 3MJT17 I saved the inner but knackered the outer.

I am willing to start the bidding of this rare 34LJT25 at the modest price of £1000...

Malcolm
Malcolm Le Chevalier

Just to be clear, the ones I have are the very overpriced ones, so they better goddam had fit without play :)
OrangeSpyderMan

OK OSM

Firstly the company is not R and M which is fair enough however

It is possible and a number of companies do it to buy basic bearings and modify/machine them to old specifications. This is not unusual and I suspect thaten that this is what they are doing. However as you can imagine this process is not cheap and I suspect that is reflected in the price. If indeed that is the case then to machine the inner race (radius) and face adjust the bearing would be a bargain at such a price. I suspect that you could buy the basic bearing for about a quid so fair enough.

If the bearings fit without play then the job as they say is a good un.

By the way I had a word with the chap about a year ago and he certainly gave me the impression that he had a stock of NOS that was running out. At that time he was considering either finding more old stock or looking at modification, so not sure where he is today.

Finally there is still NOS about, a friend of mine (NSK) told me about a claim that had been submitted just a few moths ago by a BRT supplier in Wales. Apparently they had supplied 2 NOS Midget wheel bearings to a garage (for next to nothing as they stood on the books) only to have a claim back to them when the bearings failed!!! They had been fitted incorrectly thankfully my mate said but again asking the BRT place did they have anymore we were told unfortunately not!
Bob Turbo Midget England

Sorry OSM, got you mixed up with Malcolm.

You both have a french connection.

You being in france, and him being a le chevalier. :)
Lawrence Slater

They are in but not torqued up, I have been building things in the flat where it is warm! Will be at the garage at the weekend to torque up the hub nut. Seems play-free already when done up finger tight so heres hoping!

If I understand correctly tho if the tolerances aren't correct the bearings will jam up when the hub nut is torqued up.

Malcolm
Malcolm Le Chevalier

Hi Malcolm,

Did the inner bearings slide all the way home on the stub axle shaft, leaving no gap?

Did you trial fit prior to inserting the inners in the hubs?

In other words, is the inner radius large enough?

Lawrence Slater

PS,

You'll only get jammed bearings, if the spacer is left out, or has been shortened to fix a previously lose incorrect bearing set. --- If I have understood all I have read on this. :)
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence, right back in my first post:

"I checked the important inner radius with my (admitedly cheap and a bit shoddy) radius gauges. The radis is about 2 - 2.5 mm and looks a lot bigger radius than the standard 1mm on some other bearings I have around."

Radius also looks same 'large' radius size as the 34LJT25 that came out.

Cheers,
Malcolm
Malcolm Le Chevalier

Torqued up the hub nut and everything is as sweet as. Then realised you have to put the brake disc shield thing on before the hub. Doh. So took hub off again.

Cheers
Malcolm
Malcolm Le Chevalier

I have a NOS wheel bearing kit with RHP bearings, but the inner is marked 39/LJT25 rather than 34.

Very healthy radius.


Dave O'Neill2

Malcolm, I take it your inner bearing doesn't stick on the hub then. And great, sounds like these might save us all a load of money. :)

Dave, where did you get them and how much? :)
Lawrence Slater

It's one I've had for some time.

I've got that many NOS parts, I don't know where I got them all from ;o)

As I'm now Spridgetless, I might be persuaded to part with it.
Dave O'Neill2

Hmmm, interesting. Not intending to get another Spridget then? Yes, I am interested for the right price. :)

And also in other NOS you have lying around too.
Lawrence Slater

Here is a picture of the NSK version of the 20 degree angular contact bearing (7205) the same size as the original.

When you first look at it the inner radius does seem large, however I measured it and it is only 1mm, just need to check a couple of stub axles I have in the garage to see what they measure

Whilst this is a quality bearing (made in japan) if fitted with its smaller mate the front wheel when fully fitted would have play due to non face adjustment.

Lets see what occurs with your Malcolm


Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Bob, like I said, it seemed to torque up fine and spins sweetly. Can't detect any play whilst king pin is clamped and I try to jiggle the hub. Luck?! Probably. Clearly karma noticed my good fortune and got me back by blowing my head gasket!

Quick pic of the radius on the bearings I have...

Malcolm


Malcolm Le Chevalier

Need to get some of those gauges they look the biz :)
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

and against a 2mm guage.

Malcolm


Malcolm Le Chevalier

Bob, they were the cheapest radius gauges I could get on ebay. 0.75mm - 5mm in 0.25mm steps. They were only about £6.

Malcolm
Malcolm Le Chevalier

I'll get some
What bearing did you buy for the outer one?
and
When are you fitting them to the car for the final test?
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

When am I fitting them to the car...? 2013 perhaps?! Still have the other 2/3rds of the body to rebuild! Just tidying up the mechanicals whilst its cold.

Malcolm
Malcolm Le Chevalier

Malcolm, your bearing has definately had the radius reworked as standard bearings will normally have a black finish to the radius as they are turned before hardening (the normal exception being bearings with anti corrosion properties)so it may also have been face adjusted as well.

Trev
T Mason

Well they still have them for £29.99. Ex VAT.
http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p554005/34/LJT25+Angualar+Contact+Special+Ball+Bearing+25x52x15mm/product_info.html

Malcolm was this the price for Both inner and outer bearings?
Lawrence Slater

No, this is just for the 34LJT25-a-like inner bearings.

Malcolm
Malcolm Le Chevalier

Ah right thanks Malcolm.

So as Bob asked, what outer bearing did you use, and how much?
Lawrence Slater

Just an update for a moment

The company who are trying to impress that they are actually Randsome and Marles I believe will shortly be in a legal battle with NSK.

As I have said R and M have not existed since they were taken over by RHP who were then taken over by NSK. Understanderably NSK are not happy that someone else is using their identity to give its products "quality"

I think originally they had some old stock but I have been lead to believe that they are now have bearings modified and machined to suit older applications. This is not an unusual practice however I think it would be better if this was mad3e clear to customers and it would also be preferable to identify who the manufacturer of the original bearings are before modifying NSK suggest it is not theirs!
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

just wondering, for normal driving, what harm woulkd come from fitting these bearings....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GHK1142-SPRITE-MG-MIDGET-FRONT-HUB-WHEEL-BEARING-KIT-/160688701729?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2569cb0121

graeme
graeme jackson

?

You would have play in the front wheel bearing and would likely fail MOT.
Bob Turbo Midget England

odd that all the major parts suppliers.. MGOC, MGBhive and moss for example all sell the same kit. Surely if selling their kit causes an MOT failure they could find themselves with legal issues.
graeme jackson

Only if someone takes legal action though.

Don't suppose you know a lawyer who is willing to draft a letter and send it to them do you? :)
Lawrence Slater

I don't know about legal issues with MOT failure, but surely it comes under Trading Standards due to selling something that is not fit for purpose. However would you need to buy them and fit them first to prove it? If so they would probably claim that they had been fitted incorrectly or damaged during fitting.

Trev
T Mason

From what I've read, the required technical specs of the correct bearingsm are well documented.

So all that would be needed is to get the tech specs for the cheapies, and compare them.

Wouldn't that be proof enough that the cheapies are not fit for purpose?
Lawrence Slater

I'm going to have a little rant here but, as a disclaimer, I can appreciate that NSK are a bit miffed about someone (potentially) usurping (or at least being ambiguous about) their identity.

BUT if NSK invested their energy and budget to making the spec of bearings that we need, rather than trying to close down a shop that does, then I think we'd all be better off.

I, for one, didn't get those bearings because of who I thought they were, but because they sold what seem to be the "right" bearings, whereas few other places do. If NSK made bearings and sold them through the "usual suspect" MG places, I'd probably never have looked elsewhere.

</rant>

OSM, who's about to take the Midget for its Sunday afternoon gallop.
OrangeSpyderMan

OSM!

If you or other suppliers want NSK to make a bearing kit to fit a specific application I am sure they would be glad too. However suppliers have not ask them too.

The problem here is simple some company is using the name Ransomes and Marles (NSK) to suggest that their bearings are quality.

They may or may not be quality but using the name R and M is against the law.

If the bearings sold by Orinoco are quality then why not simply state what they are and how they are made and to what spec and we could then determine ourselves.

They have no right to use the name Ransome and Marles.

How do you know what quality the bearing are?

By the way I use a proper NSK bearing in my car without issues. :) they are quality
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Alright, alright. Like I say, I get we're there coming from.

For info the bearings I have from them are marked RHP England and... 7205 on the 34LJT25.

On the 3MJT17 it's marked RHP England, 3MJT17, rather unoriginally.

Quite correctly, I don't know what they _actually_ are, but that's what is says.

I must get round to fitting them as there is play on the front left, but the weather is still nice enough on a weekend to want to go places rather than fiddle, but the days are too short to do both.

OSM, back from the gallop and only one brief shower. Didn't even have to put the hood up.
OrangeSpyderMan

FWIW SKF reference the inner one as 7205B...
David Smith

This thread was discussed between 11/11/2011 and 27/11/2011

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.