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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Beginners Propshaft and Universal Joint Fitment

First try at changing UJs on midget propshaft; what went wrong and what to avoid.
Removal of propshaft was not a problem so on to the more technical bits.
I watched a couple of online vids both from the US and UK to gain tips and tricks.
Took propshaft to friends garage as he has a vice which seemed like a necessary piece of equipment.
Tap end of bearing cap with ball end of hammer or nip with small socket in vice to take any pressure off the circlip prior to removal of both circlips.
Place socket over bearing cap and move the spider and cap each way to break contact in the yoke.
A problem now occurred in that the 4inch vice (width) would not open far enough to take two sockets and the yoke; a small socket to push out (partially) the end cap of the opposite side into a larger diameter socket. In theory once you get 4mm of the bearing end cap beyond the edge of the yoke it can be removed by nipping it in the vice and tapping the yoke with a hammer or screwing it off with a pair of mole pliers. A small socket can then be used to push back the exposed end of the spider to push out the cap on the other end.
What I failed to do was read the bleeding instructions in the manual which shows a different method of cap removal. This is where you hit the yoke with a copper hammer and the caps come out at the end that you are hitting (obviously after removal of circlips). For some reason I simply cannot get my head around how this works and would be grateful if anyone else has used this method and can verify that it does work.
So, back to not reading the instructions and making a buggeration of things.
I now followed the bush mechanic advice and used a lump hammer to drive the end cap out by battering the other end via a socket. Tip; put the socket on the end of an extension bar so that you can hold it whilst hitting it and the socket will then not disappear across the floor when thumped. This method works but you need to hit it quite hard and invariably you will drive the cap through the yoke so that one end can easily be removed. The problem that you will now face is that you cannot get the spider out from the yoke and it is impossible (at least for the mechanically ungifted) to push the end cap that you have been hitting backwards through the yoke to do the same. Again any advice on getting out of this problem without resorting to brute force and ignorance (my way, but not recommended) would be welcomed.
Putting the new UJ back on
Remove all four end caps from the spider, check inside that all of the needle roller bearings are standing upright. Probably best to insert UJ first into smallest item ie not the propshaft itself but one of the now separated yokes.
A vice can now be used to push an end cap into the yoke whilst holding the spider such that it holds the needle roller bearings in place---this is VITAL.
Now the opposite cap can be inserted in a similar manner and even more care is needed so as not to disturb the needle roller bearings in either end cap.
Once both cap ends are flush with the end of the yoke you will need to gently push the cap on one side in so that you can get a circlip in place.
Using circlip pliers or narrow nosed pliers the temptation is to hold the circlip in place with your thumb whilst inserting it..this works very well but there is also a tendency to remove the skin off the tip of your thumb at the same time when you let go of the circlip. Suggest wearing thin latex gloves at all times to stem the flow of blood so you can carry on bodging!
Now push the other cap back through with the aid of the socket to force the cap up against the newly inserted circlip allowing room to put in the second circlip.
If, like me, you find that you cannot push the cap far enough in to see the indent for the second circlip then the most likely event is that one or more needle roller bearings have fallen into to base of the end cap. Yes dear reader this happened to me. You now have to start again and remove the bloody end cap. Use a small screwdriver and pick the bearings from the bottom of the cap, stand up the bearings making sure none are lost or broken/bent, i.e. no gapsinsert a little finger tip or the end of a capless spider to align and check for free rotation.
If you are more careful the second time and you have not broken anything, other than your willpower, you will have half of the job done.
Now repeat with the propshaft yokethis is more difficult as you have to manhandle the propshaft whilst keeping needle roller bearings in place but now it will be much easier as you have done it at least twice already. Unfortunately I did exactly the same thing for the second time by getting a needle roller bearing crossways and had to take it apart again!
Now for the other end of the propshaft..followed by getting it back on the car (easyish as PO has cut a hole in the base) and see if it is balanced. To be continued..

In summary;
1. Read and watch the instructions.
2. Have a spare UJ (~7) so three in total if you are doing both ends.
3. Access to a big vice.
4. Copper/lead hammer.
5. Circlip pliers.
6. Dont dislodge the needle roller bearings.
7. No, really, please dont dislodge the roller bearings.

Alternatively one of the major suppliers will provide an exchange prop unit with two new UJs and balanced for 60. I think my mechanicing skill level is around 4 (out of ten .I know you think it should be out of 100 after reading this!) so if yours is less than 4 this is probably the way to go if you are in a hurry or dont wish to lose the tips of your thumbs.
New year resolution;I must try to spend more time driving the things than laying underneath them!
Gaan canny,
John S
J Sloan

John I have used my copper hammer on ujs for years, if the opening is clean, yes it works nicely

It uses to shock of movement against inertia

A little finger preloaded with grease helps keep the needles in place before you reasse... hammer the new needle races /things back together

But as you discovered the preassembled method has lots going for it


But working under the car beats a couple of hours in the pub after all
Bill sdgpM

If your vise is small and your sockets too long, a couple of large nuts (the threaded type) will work just as well.
J Bubela

Yes, a bigger vice is recommended. I used the big socket and little socket technique to push one side out. When I got that cap out I swapped the sockets around with a bolt in the end of the small socket to push on the spider to remove the other cap. It seemed to work.

To reassemble, I used the vice to push one cap in using the spider to keep the needles in. I pushed it into the yoke enough to enable one circlip to be inserted. I moved the spider across enough to keep the needles correct in the other cap as I inserted it into the other yoke. Again I inserted it enough so I could also get it's circlip in place. I then used a socket to push on the circlip and pressed it into the yoke until I heared the circlip ping into place. Turned it around and did the same on the other side.

All went ok until I realised that at the diff end I put the UJ in backwards. OOPS!!!! I didn't even consider they needed to be one way!!!

When flexed in one direction it was ok, in the other it bound such that it only got as far as the straight ahead position!! It was the type with grease nipple and the greas nipple and casting where it screwed in that was binding.

Not wanting to destroy the new UJ's by taking them out again I drilled a big hole in the middle of the part that bolts to the diff. It worked, just. I had to remove the bleed nipple and replace it with a bolt to seal it.

Next time I'll RTFM!!!!

Rob

MG Moneypit

Big vice--no hammer on your machined/balanced tailshaft
MARK the shaft, flanges etc to get everything back where it came from
Large /small sockets and push em out
To reassemble- fit the first cup in a bit and fit the spider into it- locate the grease nipple hole towards the shaft and fitted so that the nipple will be in the compression position under load- using the sockets push the assembly in till the cap has gone further in past it's normal finished position,-fit the first circlip, this allows a bit extra spider poking through so you can fit the second cap well onto the spider-without damaging needles etc then push the assembly through till it hits the circlip, then fit the second circlip-
Repeat for the flange and then do the other end
No hammering needed

scores----------------
John S----1 plus a half for the size of the writeup and minus 2 for buying three u joints
Rob-----6 minus 2 for drilling a hole and unbalancing your tailshaft
Bill--9 for mentioning the pub--well done
J Bub.--not sure about putting my nuts in the vice but I'll give you a--8 as I feel it would be an incentive to get the job done very quickly--

willy
William Revit

John
As others have said, grease will help to keep the needle rollers in place. Also, you want to locate the yolk so that the needle rollers are partially covered by their caps as you press them on. A bit fiddly but I'm sure many have done it with a 4" vice, including me. Also many will have dislodged a needle roller including me. It'll be better next time.....
Bill
Bill Bretherton

Update; removed other end of propshaft universals, again with some difficulty but refitted the UJ in less than 10mins without removing skin or crossing needle rollers.Steep learning curve or what.
Prop back on car and awaiting receipt of 'spare' UJ and new nyloc nuts before taking it for a blast to hear the delightful wail of the SC dog box.
Thanks for the comments and explanation of how the copper hammer trick works,will try it next time.
Following Willy's comment, does no one else like to keep spares in stock? I don't like paying postage for just one item so stock up on potential consumables if placing an order (2 midgets to run into the ground).
John S
J Sloan

I always keep lots of spares. . . just in case. You never know when you'll need them.
Dave O'Neill 2

Or just pay a pro $30 and pick it up the next day...worked for me.

Been there ...i wont do that job agian

Prop
1 Paper

JohnS
My apologies if I have offended you, not my intention at all,just a bit of fun ,please don't take it seriously
spares are always good to have about---
Cheers
willy
William Revit

Good grief willy ...

that was really was over the top repugnent ... id be offended by that also..this isnt the skank and slut how to website!!!

(((..fit the spider into it- locate the grease nipple hole towards the shaft and fitted so that the nipple will be in the compression position under load.)))

Prop

1 Paper


lol - Prop

Honestly though mate, I hope no-one took the score thing seriously, I'd hate to think I'd offended anyone

It's going to be hot here today and I have to go and do a job for a friend,- much rather sit back with a nice cold beer, but, that's the way it goes eh.
Cheers
willy
William Revit

This thread was discussed between 05/01/2017 and 07/01/2017

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.