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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Bleeding brakes!

Help needed again folks. I've fixed the rear brake adjusters, fitted sections of new hard pipework, new flexies calipers and master cylinder. After much faffing, all the joints are now dry. I have bled through numerous times with a new EZ bleed yet still I have virtually no pedal.

Has anyone had problems with the brand new and spectacularly cheap new calipers or master cylinders?

I have pumped the caliper pistons out and pushed them back in and now they do get firm on the disks so at least they move but why will the system not bleed correctly?

IS there a problem with the drillings in the M/C - it's not unknown.

I really need to get this sorted so the car can be moved - the space is needed for another project but I want the midget useable.

Clive Berry

Just bled my brakes this afternoon without problems. Ezibleed with about 30 psi forces all the bubbles out for me.
C MADGE

Did you bench bleed the m/c?
Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel, I can't see how this can help, there is no "pocket" for air in the MC.
Can it really be the problem? I saw on a thread somewhere about clamping at about 4t deg in a vice and pumping. A recipie for a workshop full of brake fluid.
Clive Berry

I had a problem with a new "plastic" master clutch cylinder, which leaked when trying to bleed with Eezibleed. Sent it back to supplier (Leacy) for refund and put my metal master cylinder back on. Was not impressed with the plastic one at all - a lot of flexing in the body. Is yours plastic?
Geoff Mears

Clive,
Nigel reminded me of, when I changed my dual master.
Is your master a dual? If so a bench bleeding is recommended, look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOuDEiwiozQ
If I recall correct, I did the bench bleeding with the master in the car, but not quite sure.....
Having done it that way I don't recall any further difficouldies
Jan Kruber

Geoff, it is a new plastic m/c.
Clive Berry

Jan, it's a single circuit. I have never had this problem before.
The m/c I removed (plastic type) turned out to be OK internally but also would not bleed.
Clive Berry

Clive,
It may have been mentioned before but you have fitted the calipers with the bleed nipples at the top it is possible to reverse them (left/right i understand) and air then gets trapped - not had that problem myself.

I still use the assistant method, and initially open the nipples a bit more to ensure a good flow of fluid, then pump up the pedal before opening when 'getting there'.

Seems a bit strange that two m/c's are not bleeding up tho'.

R.
richard b

Richard, they are the right way up! There is constant weeping of fluid which looks to be more from the bleed nipples than the banjo's. Can't do them up any tighter.

After a decade or so playing with Series Land Rovers and the very cheap, micky mouse sh*te parts all the suppliers provided, I have a feeling that the stampede to the lowest possible prices has arrived with MG's.

The calipers and M/C were cheap but all the suppliers were much the same. I was sceptical before I purchased but that is what is available. the bleed nipple threads are a bit slack so I reckon fluid is working out through these-and air back in I suppose.

Might just have to get the old ones renovated, in the UK, with better quality parts.

More delays.
Clive Berry

There are lots of rubbish parts out there !

With the banjo's assume you have the copper washers in place - if they are hard you could try annealing them and refitting.

The bleed nipples should only need a nip up.
Have you tried using the old bleed nipples to see which is slack ?

I would return them to the supplier and please name them so we all know.

I have rebuilt calipers(seals and new pistons) and its not difficult assuming they are not seized rusty anchors.

I have the plastic reservoir masters and not had any issues - they are the 'Delphi' brand.

R.
richard b

These m/c's are marked Lockhead on the resevoir.
The calipers might be beyond a home rebuild.

I cleaned up and fitted new seals to a set on my Sunbeam not so long back and they worked a treat. I swapped them onto another car which I then sold.

I had the calipers refurbished by Bigg Red in Worcester and they came back looking fantastic. These will be fitted to the Sunbeam very soon - then I'll know if they're any good.

I boxed up the Midget ones to send to them but was tempted by the new ones. Oh well.
Clive Berry

Clive,

The pukka brake company is Lockheed, there have been counterfeit parts in the past labelled Lockhead.
David Billington

Clive,
I had trouble with the new brake nipples I fitted, at least two (or more, can't remember now) out of the four, it took three lots of nipping-up after journeys to get them fully nipped-up.

IIRC front nipples are 7/16" spanner but new rear can be 7mm, I know as I had to buy a spanner that size to be sure of nipping them up fully.

For BL/BMC/MG. ect., there have been piss-poorly modern made parts for at least the last 13+ years that I can think of and some of the green box Lucas stuff further back.

In the Archives, and on the B threads, you'll find (a now out of date) list, rubber used to feature strongly but there where many other parts. You can't even trust Heritage parts as discovered with wishbones.

ETA: poorly made and counterfeit parts are in the modern car trade too

Nigel Atkins

There was another thread fairly recently about someone who had weeping no matter now hard the nipples were done up on new calipers :(

It sounds like their quality is a bit hit and miss. I must have been lucky with the replacements I bought as they have been OK.

C MADGE

Just a point to bear in mind: Bleed nipple threads do need a degree of slack in them to allow the cone end to centralise as they are nipped up. If the thread is too close a fit then the cone will be forced off centre on its seating and not seal as it should. So don't reject bleed nipples just because you think the thread is a loose fit. It isn't the thread that seals anyway.
GuyW

David, I can't spell Lockheed!

Quite sure it's calipers now, more drips this morning so will reject them and return to supplier. The bleed nipples will not nip up, period. If fluid can get out, air can get in so simply not fit for purpose.

I only bought them as it was quicker than having the old ones refurbished and about the same cost - mistake!

The project ends up three weeks late.

Clive Berry

I buy al my brake parts at http://www.ccparts.nl they manufacture with the right tolerances, better materials than original and even improved design. Not working in smal series but by the thousands. Never, no never had any problems with them. (I do not have shares)

Flip


Flip Brühl

Clive

I have the originals off my 1500 going spare. One is good and the other has a stuck piston. Would they be any good to you ?

I'm fairly local to you, and I work in Cheltenham....
C MADGE

Thanks Flip, that looks interesting.
Chris, very tempting - I also work Cheltenham direction. I'm sure we can come to an arrangement.
Clive Berry

If you think I can help Clive, drop me an email and I'll sort something out.
C MADGE

The calipers are going back to the supplier. Lets see if they accept they are faulty or if they want to be obstructive.
Clive Berry

Clive, I got some new ones from MGOC instead of refurb, but not fitted them yet. Did you get yours from them?
Geoff Mears

I didn't get them from MGOC spares. I'll keep the supplier under my hat for now. I've asked for a full refund but they are giving me the warranty runaround at the moment. I'll send them back and see what happens.
Clive Berry

If you want genuine AP Caparo (Lockheed) brake parts try Powertrack Brakes Ltd, Coasting Ltd or Past Parts (some of these do rebuilds too)

http://www.powertrackbrakes.co.uk
http://www.coastings.co.uk
http://www.pastparts.co.uk

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

see my previous thread on faulty campers. never resolved it to my satisfaction
S G Macfarlane

calipers!
S G Macfarlane

Probably come in a bit late on this thread, and it sounds the calipers are faulty, but for what its worth from my own experience
1. The original calipers on my car were stainless steel. Cheap replacements were not, so much better to refurbish the originals.
2. Bleed nipples shouldn't need to be "as tight as possible". Too tight can damage them. And as the seal is not at the thread, sometimes I find short term "apparent" weeping, as the fluid between the seal and the threads escape.

Graham V

GV, quite right, nipples should be nipped up, not ft + 1/4!
I fnipping them up does not work then the bleed niples or the calipers are not fit for purpose.
Clive Berry

My experience was, I put two on new rear wheel cylinders with new nipples and after bleeding the brakes I had a weep on one of the front nipples so I thought I'd change them both. Both of the old front nipples were tight to remove, in fact I only replaced the side with the leak at the time as both seemed so tight. I replaced the remaining nipple with later work. I can't remember the order now but it took three lots of journeys and nipping up to get the some of the four nipples snug and the weeps were more than just residue as I was hoping that's all it would be. I was careful not to over-tighten as the last thing I'd want is a broken nipple.
Nigel Atkins

I'm sure things are different over here.....but.....
I bought a new MC from Autozone this Summer. Put it in the car before I noticed....the reservoir was put on backwards (turned 180 degrees). Just delighted in having to remove it and start over.....
Paul W 1976 1500

This thread was discussed between 03/11/2018 and 07/11/2018

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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