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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Brake servos

Anyone got one and are they worth having. My car stops OK but you do need a hefty shove on the brake pedal.
Roger D

It's personal preference really. Originally they would be fitted with a servo with 1.6 lift ratio. The cheap ones available today have 1.9 lift ratio although I have seen servos with 2.3 lift ratio described as suitable for midgets and Sprites.
Rob
MG Moneypit

I haven't got one on my Sprite but I have driven a couple with them.

I like them. But you shouldn't need one.

If you need extra shove on your pedal to lock the wheels, something is amiss.
anamnesis

Yes I have never felt the need for a servo with Disc brakes. I am able to lock its wheels with reasonable pressure. I guess its personal preference
Bob Beaumont

If you lock your wheels when braking, you have reduced the braking efficiency. You are just skidding. Maximum retardation is just before they lock. Hence cadence braking. But it takes a lot of practice especially in that panic moment when suddenly forced to do an unexpected emergency stop!
GuyW

If you are swapping from a modern car with heavily servoed brakes to your Sprite/Midget on an irregular basis then you might find it beneficial to have a servo on your Sprite/Midget.

As to whether you need one or not, or can lock up the front wheels or not, is not the same for all Sprites/Midgets.

There are three different brake pedals of which at least one has a different leverage to the others. Also the weight of your car and the width of the tyres will make a difference.

So it's one thing to get the tyres to almost lock at 50 mph on 155 width tyres and quite a different thing to get them to almost lock at 70 mph on 175 width tyres.

Then for that time when you are doing over a 100mph in the third lane of the motorway and someone is doing about 50 in the middle lane and someone pulls out into the third lane to overtake them without checking their rear view mirror, you might be grateful your Sprite/Midget has a servo even if your leg muscles are a match for Mr Universe.
Daniel

Personally, I wouldn't fit one. For a start the car is so light it really doesn't need one. As Guy said, locked brakes aren't braking properly.

Agreed the brakes may feel a little unresponsive compared to a modern over-servoed car's brakes. But I have a thing about the remote hydraulic servo. It is added complication when it isn't needed. It can make bleeding the brakes more difficult and there are a number of reports from MGB owners of sudden and complete brake failure due to servo leaks.
Mike Howlett

As others have said it's personal preference.

Mine has one fitted as I believe it requires less mental adjustment after driving a modern, which as Daniel notes, may just make a difference in an emergency situation.

Sorry Mike, I don't think modern cars are 'over-servoed' IMO they're just servoed.
Should we be describing modern clutch mechanisms as over light because they require less effort to operate than some classics? Is this a can of worms?
Jeremy MkIII

Roger,
if your 1973 (same as mine) Midget needs a hefty shove on the brake then there is something wrong.

Tyres are very important to braking (and steering, suspension, road holding and ride comfort and noise) and often overlooked. Many classics have tyres that have plenty of tread but less grip because they have gone hard from age and/or lack of use. A good quality tyre in good condition makes a big difference to braking.

To some extent the same is for brake pads and perhaps discs, shoes and drums.

Correct adjustment of the rear shoes can make a difference to pedal feel (and handbrake operation).

The hydraulics can also be forgotten or neglected, changing of fluid and aged rubber flexi-hoses.

Jumping from a modern car into a Midget will have the brakes feeling different and perhaps the need for more use of the biological electronic aids rather than the complex car manufacturers computer programs.

I've driven a few cars with soft feeling pedal and braking but they have always performed very well on 'emergency' braking.

Personally after timely servicing and maintenance I go for good quality tyres that are not aged and too worn and same for brake pads.
Nigel Atkins

Spot on Nigel, tyres are the limiting factor in what can be achieved in the way of braking.

Unboosted Midget brakes have more than enough mechanical advantage to deal with an emergency stop, particularlt when you factor in the extra leg strength courtesy panic adrenalin surge.

That said, having the brakes feel similar to other cars you drive is really useful. I well remember 30+ years back, after car-sitting my bros company car (87-88_ish Falcon I think Willy) with hyper boosted brakes for a couple of weeks then jumped back into the B with twin master cyls and comp linings, unboosted, and nearly went straight ahead at Tee into the creek at the bottom of our road :)
Yet normally Bronwyn (lightly built wife) has no issues stopping with the B's brakes.
Very much what you are used to.
Paul Walbran

I had the opposite with going from driving my previous Spridget and then jumping into a new car and then over braking at the first light push of the pedal so it reminded me with every change of vehicle to test the pedal feel and braking effect as soon as possible at slow speed from pulling off in the vehicle.

I got more used to doing this when I had a car that had four discs brakes which used to rust if the car wasn't used for a few days where I'd have to clean off the discs before I got to the very nearby main road.

But I forgot this brake checking when I picked up a Morris Minor which I was told was driven on Sundays, I was cautious but even so the first time I need to bring the car to a stop from about 25mph I thought I might overshoot the junction. The tyres and braking was ineffective from lack of use and age despite loads of tyre tread. It was probably driven more like only sunny Sundays ever blue-moon. Anyone only used to modern cars might have thought the brakes were almost totally inoperative.

Best to always test the braking before you really need it. Many seem happy to test a vehicle's acceleration without first testing the braking, these people you have to remind that testicles are very delicate (it's almost always men).

Nigel Atkins

The ultimate servo, will be driverless. Lol
anamnesis

Found this install of a servo on a Mk2 Sprite


T Carter

My midget has a servo to go with the improved braking setup.
Im pleased with it but stil think there is improvement possible as its still not like comperison to a modern car. :)








A de Best

hadnt much room left for a servo but at the end it fits!





A de Best

MG Midget Mk1

Dug out my remote servo, which was next on my list of things to do. Could not find a happy place for it to go on the passenger side of the engine bay, so moved back to the driver's side, to the space left by me not fitting the heater blower motor back in.

I had to to some fettling (drilling/sawing) on both mounting brackets, but finally got it settled into place, where I would only need new pipes of @ 1ft each in order to connect up. The bonnet shuts OK, and a nice run for the vacuum pipe across to the inlet manifold, running behind the heater. I was able to use the heater blower mounting points to fix the brackets, so no new holes, in an already holy driver's side.

Feeling pleased, with myself, I retired to my study, to have a bit of a tidy up, on doing so, I came across the instructions for installation of said remote servo.

Seems I had installed it upside down (air control valve should be underneath) and it recommends that the servo unit be "below" the master cylinder.

So is it back to the drawing board, or should I try it out as is, and fit the new pipes and bleed the brakes? ( I have a pressure bleeder)






T Carter

Anyone any thoughts on this ?
T Carter

However well you bleed there will inevitably be micro bubbles in the system that will work their way to the highest point.The servo needs to be mounted so the line joint is at the highest point to allow you to crack and bleed out any remaining trapped air.
f pollock

This thread was discussed between 29/05/2022 and 15/07/2022

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.