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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - brake upgrade

So just doing some recon for a posible later project.

More stopping power and better heat transfer less weight in 13" wheels.
That is the goal now lets see how to solve it.

the 9" MGB is to heavy
the KAD is fine but to expensive

Apparently the austin princess 4-pot calliper fits the midget but it weighs a ton.
Though it does open up a possibility.
http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/calipers/UL4 Princess.htm

And then this has the same mounting bolt center
http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/calipers/UL 20M16.htm

So now the questions
Would these be able to fit with the standard disk?
Or is ther an other disk that fits without mods

allegro disk should fit but needs turning down.

Anny other thoughts?

oh and the links need copy pasting with tha space and the 2nd bit

Onno Könemann

okay i might have screwed up
i appears the calipers mentioned above do not have dust seals and are not realy an option for road use.

the do have them with dust seals but then the cost comes verry close to the KAD caliper.

anny thoughts
Onno Könemann

Metro 4-pots???

How about decent quality discs and Mintex 1144 pads and install a servo - works for us without problems, always reliable and more than adequate braking power
PeterJMoore

Take a wee look.

I can do a similar set up on a 9" solid disc with either 2 or 4-pot Wilwood calipers.

I'd never fit a servo - it removes all braking 'feel'.

Deborah Evans

Onno
I paid £400 for my KAD calipers direct from Kad on recomendation from the Mini boys (who use them alot)
No modifications for fitting and when coupled with crossdrilled discs they are not far behind a big brake kit conversion with 4 pot calipers but about £200 cheaper if you were to buy them of the shelf and very very light too.


would recommend mintex 1144 and not ebc greenstuff,from experience not guess work

Rob Newt

metro 4 pots are heavy
don't like servo's

ebc disks and 1144's fitted

It is not bad now (though i need a new MC but that is another project) but when pushing it on trackdays the heat is getting high.

And in an ideal solution i could use a less agressive pad (since the heat is dispersed better) to have more braking from cold since braking on the end of a highway exit does not always feel as solid (lots of cooling airflow and braking from high speed to zero)

if it can not be done without adding weight i'll eventualy save up for the KAD set or live with it since corenring and comfort is mor important than stopping (who needs to stop if you can avoid ;) )
Onno Könemann

Deb
You did show those before i think?
Are your kits coupled with those nice alloy hubs of yours?
Is your health back on track?

Rob
400 for just the calipers is pricy i think.
certainly when considering the price of comparable wilwoods.

Onno Könemann

Deborah

Having jumped in and out of various midgets with and without servo's, not only does the servo provide the extra oomph missing from the stock system, but also provides a good solid pedal which is progressive and gives good feel on a wide variety of surfaces.

If feel was removed then the choice of using them or not would be simple - we flat out wouldn't fit them.

It may have been frowned upon by those who thought it wasnt masculine enough to have a servo, or those who hadn't actually tried a decent setup, but we are more than happy with the response, feel and reliability of the PowerTune kit.

3 day events involving a lot of spirited and competitive driving provides you with two options - tired and sore legs from pushing what seems to be a useless brick against the wall it should be in or enjoy your time piloting your pride and joy around the countryside.

There is good reason behind 99.9% of vehicles manufactured in the last 25 years come equipped with a servo, and that includes all the motorsport inspired variants.
PeterJMoore

Peter I disagree.

While it might be fine on a rally car to reduce driver fatigue, I stand by my original post.

A servo reduces brake pedal feel, and does the square root of feck all to improve braking efficiency!

The reason that 90.99% of cars are fitted with servos is because 90.99% of drivers have feck all idea how to brake.

It is a FACT that brake 'feel' is more about pressure than movement at the foot.



As a racer I WANT to FEEL my brakes, therefore I will NOT fit a servo. Nor ever I have.



Onno I am much better now, thank you. Yes the kit comes with the Alloy hubs = a MAJOR reduction in unsprung weight.
Deborah Evans

I agree with Deb - don't like servos and don't really see the necessity of fitting them to a light car like a Spridget... But if they work for you Pete then fair enough.

JB
James B

Pete is right, that a properly set up servo can give quite good progressive feel.

Deb and JB are also right, that a race car is probably better without, since even a 1% difference can add up over several laps.

The reason why all cars today are fitted with servos is because they weigh at least twice what our cars weigh. Even "light weight" sports cars are well over 3000lbs, up there with small passenger cars.


Heck, no one even notices when a "sports" car weighs in at 3400 lbs these days!


Norm
Norm Kerr

onno-
those hispec calipers seem to be in the road section their site, the "economy" ones are only 95 quid each, which seems reasonable. are there any 4 pot options for the B, as it has the same caliper mountings? as do ford fitments, but they all seem to fit princess calipers anyway.

I Like the KAD calipers but in my view the limitation of the midget disc setup is the actual disk is too small and heats up too fast, rather than needing more pad area..

debs that looks excellent - is it a purchasable kit? what bits (rotor and caliper) do you use,/if you don't mind me asking? 'sok if you don't want to release 'trade secrets' :) :)
Rob Armstrong

The reason they are all fitted with servos today is that the world seems to revolve around the lowest common denominator - f**king stupid people.

As an ex-racer I still prefer the "FEEL" of the servo'd brakes on a Midget and thats is also being used in a competition car for rallying.

The car in question however is NOT a race car, but a fast road car by the looks of it, hence my suggestion (even though Onno doesnt like them either).
PeterJMoore

As an ex racer too and championship winner I would always prefer a servo
Don't understand the comments about feel? the feel I get is through the seat of my pants not the brake pedal. As soon as a wheel locks up your whole body feels the lack of retardation not the foot on the brake pedal.
Toe and healing is made far easier with a servo as without one all my effort is being applied to the brake pedal and finessing goes totally out of the window.

All that said like most things it is a personal thing and you do what you feel suits yourself

I notice that as soon as the powersteering fails in a formula one car the driver is the first to complain! :)
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Rob N,

Do you need any spacers etc with standard Rostyles and is the standard 1275 m/c used with the KAD units.

As regards servo's - when a midget was my
everyday driver I didn't bother.
With modern over servo'd cars like my everyday driving Golf you only need to lay your foot on the peddle for emergency braking.
Swapping only occasionally currently to the midget is the problem.
The important thing is not to fit too powerful a servo - as it only makes the same breaking effect available with reduced pedal load.

R.
richard boobier

To make it clear i only drive old cars most without servo (only the girls GT has one)
If you are switching a lot between modern over servo'd(we all agree to that)and old non i can understand the need for a servo.
My legs are used to it.

Rob
you are correct though i've been taught that street calipers need dust covers.
And as far as i can see these dont have those.

Anny one more knowledgable in the area of dust seals?
Onno Könemann

I ran the Civic on 335mm 6-pot Hi-Specs without dust seals

I just periodically gave them a good clean (each time i changed pads)

Never had a problem, and they cleaned up like new each time - just dont use anythign abrasive

PeterJMoore

Richard
Standard m/c used with KAD,I have now take off my front spacers and no clearance problems however I do use 14" alloys,next time I take the wheels off I will try one of the rostyles on for you.
Kad use Metro turbo pads, these have more coverage than the standard pads, they do have very good stopping power as I recentley found out at Castle coombe.
Rob Newt

Check with Bill Young here on the BBS

He has mangaged to cross referance a princes 4 pot with a wilwood caliper for a fration of the wieght and cost and should be a direct fit
Prop

Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo, England (((Said)))....


I notice that as soon as the powersteering fails in a formula one car the driver is the first to complain! :)


Is this a good example of your comment...LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR5kyuEJynQ


Prop

Prop

This thread was discussed between 01/10/2010 and 02/10/2010

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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