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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Complete NOS QH Kinpin and f/suspension set

If you look at other suppliers, not all the same quality I would guess, and what you get for your money, then this is very good value.

You actually get *TWO* complete unopened NOS QH, QSK-136 KIN PIN AND BUSH SETS, as per picture. Inner bushes, inner and outer fulcrums, top fulcrum, trunnion bushes, etc.

King pin to suit DISC brake stub axles. (I think I'm right in that DRUM brake stub axle king pins are single diameter journals, unlike the later stepped version).

Probably doesn't have many, this may be his last set(s).

£109.99+ £11.95 Postage
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364101074820


See also.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_ssn=zoot-spares&store_name=longbridgemotorspares&_oac=1&_trksid=p2349624.m3561.l49496

I have no iron in the fire, just passing on a 'find'.








anamnesis

Sold already!
Bob Beaumont

That was quick.

You Bob?
anamnesis

I bought the first one but there seem to be more https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364107368739 . I found a few years ago that the local machine shop that said they had the correct reamer for the job had actually ground the kingpin journals down to suit the bushes so I need a new set of kingpins and bushes and some of the other bits but upper trunnion bolt, lower trunnions, cotters etc will be not needed. The lower end of the kingpins is not to OE spec as they're left as forged rather than the side faces where the seals touch machined but I have the kit to do that myself when needed.
David Billington

No not me! I was just interested!!
Bob Beaumont

That was bad of them to say the least David. Were you able to claim money from them?

I've got these qsk-136 sets myself, and although not machined faces on the lower sides of the pins, it's pretty smooth. I don't think it needs to be ultra smooth does it? I guess it should be pretty easy to smooth them more if need be. What's the kit you have to machine them?

anamnesis

Anam,

I think they relisted another set as I've been notified that the set I ordered has been despatched earlier but not so long ago that any significant progress has been made in the tracking other than despatched or actually US English 'dispatched'.

I need to have the sides faced as the replacement lower trunnion spindles sit against those faces and if left as forged not likely to be accurately aligned enough and would bind and the width needs to be correct to get the correct clearance. I'll remake the thrust faces in stainless when I need to and add provision for an O ring running on the outside of the flanged bush to keep dirt/water out and lube in,






David Billington

The modified wishbone end.


David Billington

The original bmc king pins have nicely machined faces so the cork seals fit really well and don't allow muck etc to get in (providing they are regularly greased of course) Its odd the QH ones are left as forged albeit they are quite smooth.
Bob Beaumont

There was someone on fb looking at the age old criticisms of the threaded fulcrum pin set up, and working on a machined pin and teflon (I think) bushes as a servicable replacement. It was a couple of months ago, but I haven't seen any follow up and it seems to have gone quiet.
GuyW

Ah yes I'd forgotten you had better modified wishbones David. Very nice.

I suppose it is odd given qh boast or used to boast oe spec.

I remember that too Guy. I Wonder if I saved a link in my fb settings. I'll look and see if I can start it up again. Did you save it anywhere?
anamnesis

Didn't realise you could save a transient fb entry?
As far as I am concerned stuff on fb just goes past in an unending stream. The only things I ever find again are if I make a comment on something which generates a reply and it then pops up in my Notifications drop down. Other than that there is about as much chance as there is in finding a stranger that you passed yesterday going the other way on a busy M-way.
GuyW

I agree, it's grotty frankly.

Saving is in your profile. It's the only way I've found to archive and retrieve stuff. Searching is far worse than searching here and continuing a conversation, let alone logically, seems impossible. I'm only really still on fb for the Capri group. Soon as the Capri goes, so does my fb account.

But anyway, I've asked a question direct to James Barratt, in that 'thread' for an update. So for about 10 seconds it will be at the top. Hopefully he'll get a notification and answer. If not, maybe I'll 'message' him. --- I made sure I spelled that with an 'e' and not an 'a' . 🤣🤣
anamnesis

Anam, on your cue, I found that discussion on the James Barratt wishbone. Thanks. But I don't think that is the outer fulcrum modification I was remembering. There was another that involved drilling through the (worn) wishbone outer bushes and inserting a machined liner of some sort into which a stepped fulcrum pin fitted. His aim was to produce a simple kit of components that could be fitted to worn wishbones with minimum adaptation.
I will keep searching. . . .
GuyW

Ah right, this then Guy.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1451060651868727/search/?q=Wishbone

I've asked Stan Robert Carter for an update.

Looks very good.





anamnesis

Wouldn't mind that m'self.


anamnesis

Got the 2 sets earlier as sent UPS and all OK still in original QH packaging which is poor IMO as it's a plastic tray with a heat sealed clear film on top with QH branding so all can rattle around inside against other bits but all seems OK. Might have thought the kingpin would have a sleeve or wrap to protect the journals but no, only the cork seals are in a protective cardboard sleeve. Nyloc nut included for the top of the kingpin but no nuts or split pins for the top trunnion bolt or inner wishbone bolts even though they're drilled for split pins but then none were shown in the listing. My 2 kits have 2 upper stub axle bushes, one with a central grease hole and one with the grease hole nearer the end so a slight bonus as only one bush shown in the listing. All rubber bits seem in good order. I can get on and refurbish the stub axles now at my leisure.
David Billington

It's not just your kits David.

It's in all of them.

I was wondering about the inclusion of 2 upper bushes in the qsk136 kits. Any suggestions?
anamnesis

Anam,

"It's in all of them." what is?

The upper trunnion bushes are included in this kit. Looking at QSK136 here https://www.northwestimportparts.com/MG-midget-Front-suspension-rebuild-kit-64-79-d830.aspx shows the nuts for the upper trunnion bolt as castellated with split pin and inner wishbone pivots with nyloc which are missing in mine. They must have varied the content with time. 2 kingpin shims in that kit also and I can only see 1 in mine.
David Billington

David, you said, ---

"My 2 kits have 2 upper stub axle bushes, one with a central grease hole and one with the grease hole nearer the end so a slight bonus as only one bush shown in the listing."

That's in all qsk136 kits, at least as far as I know. I bought 2 QH qsk136 kits, nos, unopened, about 7 years ago. I still have them. They both have 2 upper stub bushes.

I wonder why, esp' as they have different grease hole drillings. Perhaps one is for the early king pin with uniform diameter journals? Just mistakenly packed at the qh factory?

Anyway, I also bought 2 more kits the other day, in order to do all four of my stubs, to 'future proof' me. Lol

Mine look to be comlete, but I double check today. But I have plenty of nuts, split pins, shims, etc, left over from past fiddlings with my front suspension, so not a problem even if some arw missing.

Not all qsk136 are QH. That code gets used by a few suppliers to describe their packaged kits I think.

But the way I see it, even if you are misding a shim or 3, or a nut and split pin or so, for the price, the rest of the contents is very good value. Perhaps not so much for you though as you said you mostly only really needed the king pins and stub bushes.

anamnesis

im not on facebook Anamnesis so cant check.
Is this beying devellopped to become ready for commercial sale?
Looks intresting and has no use for grease anymore on that point, the "plastic" bushes do that job now?
A de Best

Yep it looks very good Arie.

The chap is an engineer, and a member of MASC. He said he did it for his own use/ammusement. But so many have expressed interest that he might/hopefully end up supplying it; on facebook one of his friends offered to help. So far he's only done circa 1000 miles, and will take it apart later this year to see how it's wearing, but he says it seems fine.

He made the nylatron bushes on a lathe, and bored the existing steel bushes in the wishbones, but my understanding is the steel bushes would be better replaced with already smooth bore bushes.

Here's his description from facebook.

Can't seem to cut and paste from facebook, but here's a picture of his description

,




anamnesis

Thanks, intresting read.
A de Best

Anam,

The 2 previous kingpin kits I've bought only had a single upper stub axle bush but they weren't QSK136.

Regarding the lower trunnion modification, not sure about nylatron as a good material choice but time will tell. All nylon based materials are prone to moisture absorption and consequent dimensional changes. Something like acetal might have been a better choice. I rebushed a Volvo V40 wiper arm boss for a neighbour recently and it was marked as POM which I had to look up, PolyOxyMethylene, more commonly known as acetal and a glass fibre filled variant from the additional markings. Stable and a good choice in the environment it's exposed to IMO.
David Billington

I checked 2 of my qh qsk136 kits, and those too are missing the split pins and castle nuts. Can't say it bothers me since I use nylocks on the innner lower fulcrums anyway. Maybe that's just a qh cockup?

I don't know why he chose nylatron, I think Igladur (Igus) would do the job.

https://www.igus.co.uk/bar-stock/plastic-rod

As you say time will tell, hopefully we'll know this year. But the simplicity once adapted, means it will be very easy to replace the'plastic' bushes quite 'regularly' if need be, the idea being that the pin won't have worn, but that too would be easy to replace.

Pity you didn't commercialise your kit David, I think you'd have had a good few customers.

anamnesis

Anam,

I think there will still be the issue of the bottom faces of the kingpin being as forged with the current offerings so they may have to be machined as well to a consistent width and squareness to allow for a fixed bush dimension and maybe a replaceable thrust face can be added if thought beneficial. I wonder how accurate the dimension between the threaded bushes is in the wishbone. A chap in the US has posted a picture of the fabled special tap used to tap those threaded bushes originally so it'll be in the archives. IIRC the OE spec kingpins with the faced sides went out of production in the early 1990s.
David Billington

Yep, otherwise each change of bushes would need more machining.

Well, we're all getting so long in the tooth now, that whoever comes up with whatever perfect soution, he'll struggle to fit it to more than his own Spridget, unless it's 'soon'. 😅😅.
anamnesis

David
I'm no materials expert, but how about Delrin, as used by Peter Caldwell (USA) for shocks?
Bill Bretherton

Bill,

Delrin is an acetal polymer, Delrin is the trade name.


Just spent some of the last hour unsuccessfully looking for the thread in the archives showing the special tap for threading the wishbone trunnion, I wonder how that search can be improved.
David Billington

Castellated nuts, split pins, and a copper flash must be expensive judging by the price of this kit I just came across https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274913599096 .
David Billington

David, thanks for the clarification.
Bill Bretherton

Yep I saw that kit too. Gold plated fulcrum. 😃.

Is this the thread David?

In the tech archives. Thread: "Fulcrum pin thread".

https://mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=97&subjectar=97&thread=201803101714182281


"J Bubela, Connecticut, USA
Posted 12 March 2018

I measured the tap. The TPI are both 16. The smaller diameter is .565" with my vernier, 9/16" is .5625, just a hair different. UNC is 9/16-12, UNF IS 9/16-18, BSW IS 9/16-12 and BSF is 9/16-16. So it is BSF.
The larger diameter is .656 which equals 21/32. I have not found a 21/32 tap, but I only looked in 4 places. If there are bushes available that are pre-threaded, care must be taken to aline both pieces with a pin before brazing or it will not thread in. Does anyone out there know the type of material the bushes are made from? The tap is from an older (and I am 67) MG guy about 25 years ago. Have no idea the source. I also have a factory style reamer for frog kingpins that folks say doesn't exist. photos to follow. My photos are too large. Have to figure out how to make them smaller."






anamnesis

Anam,

That's the one and the picture of the unicorn (tap). I had found it earlier but hadn't posted it yet as was watching the news.

Came across this link in another thread and it still seems to be active after a number of years https://www.austina30a35ownersclub.co.uk/ClubSpares.aspx?SparesCatID=7 , seems to indicate the replacement wishbone bushes are still available for those inclined to do their own.
David Billington

That's a good find David. Only 10 quid per side for the bushes too.
anamnesis

This thread was discussed between 11/01/2023 and 14/01/2023

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.