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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Cut&Shut. NMC, but not completely. Is this legal?

As I understand it, Consul Capris, share the monocoque design with Spridgets.

These pictures show the back end of one Capri, being welded onto the front of another separate Capri.

The front section was cut back, so all that remains is the rear chassis rails. It's then being welded to the back section.





anamnesis

This is the rear section.

Is this legal? Ciuld this be done on a Spridget, to 'save' the car, due to too much rust damage?







anamnesis

I suppose it depends on how it’s done and whether or not it’s being done to deceive people.

If you imagine cutting a midget exactly in half and then welding another half directly onto it then that would be a true cut and shut. But if you cut a Midget in half and then say welded another half onto it by welding in new sills, tunnel and floors then I’d say that was just repairing it. By the letter of the law I guess it would still be wrong but it would really be no different to a lot of full restorations or a rebuilt Archer shell etc.

Admittedly it’s a bit of a different ball game when it is a big saloon car with a roof like the Capri.

Great these days as you can do all that and when it’s finished drive it without ever seeing an MOT station!
John Payne

I've done a few cut/shuts and if they're done correctly it's fine---no different to ,replacing old rusted bits with new bits really-
The issue is the quality of workmanship-

Diffent ball game with later cars with sound deadening panels and hardened panels and crumple zones etc---That's why most later model cars that get damage to the main cabin section get written off
willy
William Revit

My question realy, eas one of legallity and dvla 8 point rules.

The back end is even from a different model I now know.

Th3 back is a Consul CLASSIC. The front is a Consul CAPRI. They share similarities, but are significantly different in subtle places, not just the roof line.

If this is legal, then why isn't a comoleye used used shell swap legal?
anamnesis

The DVLA rules say you can repair your bodyshell, or fit a new heritage shell. You cannot fit parts into a second hand shell and retain the original V5 and identity.

I always thought it odd that you can weld in all the body panels as a repair, but cannot use a perfectly rust-free imported shell from Arizona.
So is a repair by replacing the whole back end of a car any different to welding on the panels one at a time? Presumably any body VIN numbers are all on the front half on the Crapy?
GuyW

Yep all numbers on the front, on removeable plates. Even the stamped number on the top of the front struts is removeable, with a spot weld drill, as you can remove the steel ring the number is stamped into.

But those numbers describe the entire shell.

Starting at the front and working back, how far can you go?

Could you legally cut the front off a Midget at the windscreen, and weld it to the back end of a Sprite?

Me too. Why not be able to use a used rust free shell?

Just accademic interest really I suppose. If done well, and I knew the full extent, I'd be willing to buy it if I knew it was declared and legal. It'll be interesting to see what his plans are.

My gut though says it must be illegal, as it makes it possible to avoid detection of a car being stolen, to repair a crashed or badly rusted one.
anamnesis

It is difficult rule to understand the logic but in reality I guess it was implemented to stop people just swapping shells - as they always used to do with competition cars.

If the ‘you can repair it’ is used then surely you could have a Spridget completely rusted away apart from the tunnel (because it’s been bathed in oil leaks all it’s life!) and replace every other panel and you’re fully legal. I don’t think the ruling really is intended to allow this but I guess it does.

As you say, I’d be happy with a car like the Capri done properly but as for declaring it I doubt you could get a definitive answer from the DVLA so probably best not saying anything!
John Payne

Yep I suppose so.

Not my car so not my problem. But if he wants to sell it at some point, he will have a VERY small customer base.

As it is, there are very few buyers of consul capris and classics, and the top prices (circa 20k) are only made by genuine GT Capris in factory spec, with history/proof in good condition. Standard unmolested Capris in good condution, top 15k, and Classics max at 10k top and that has to be exceptional.

He's doing this build in the full glare of the only consul capri facebook group that matters. And most on there won't touch this car after seeing this build, no matter how well it is done. Everybody seems to know every car, because there are so few of them, and some people have owned a lot of them in the past, and know all the histories.

Just noticed your "crapy" comment Guy 😆. I have to be honest, they are really. It's only the shape that makes them worth the bother. But on the facebook group, with some, it's near to religion, and blasphemous to call them "classic capris". The SHOUT comes back, NO! THEY ARE CONSUL CAPRIS. lol. So "crapy", could get you lynched 😅.

Unlike here, where there are so many Spridgets, and peep's are lot more forgiving.😁

anamnesis

Don't worry, Anam. The "Crapy" is just how non-Ford folk always referred to Capris. Little to do with a proper assessment of the cars themselves. Actually I alway liked them, though I have never owned a Ford of any description!
GuyW

I much prefer the ‘real’ Capri, the 70’s and 80’s ones. I guess that wouldn’t go down well on the Consul FB page!

I’ve owned four Fords, two of them were great (Mustangs), one of them was OK (2005 Mondeo) and the other (Mk3 Escort with CVH engine) was horrendous!

I’m surprised they are doing all that work to Consul Capri in the public eye, as you point out it’s a bit of a grey area but also it might alienate a lot of potential buyers.
John Payne

The "real" Capri? 😆. Yep, you should join the group and post that and a picture of one. It would be deleted by the admin. Lol.

I pointed out that the consul capri wasn't the first ford capri. The Lincoln Capri was in 1952. That went down like cold sick. Lol.

I've had a few fords too. The Consul capri is the worst to drive, but has a great shape. But it can be improved massively.

THIS, is the car ford never built, but should have. It's exceptional. Even the purists seem to accept it.

Edit, you may notice the front left is a bit bent. He pranged it 1st time out after completing it. Ouch.






anamnesis

Yes that is nice, would have looked a bit special in its day compared to what else was about. The wide steels and twin cam turn it into a proper ‘Fast Ford’.
John Payne

Only "illegal" for sale if you attempt to pass it off as something it's not, i.e. an original spec car.

The bigger problem is that if what it becomes no longer meets DVLA rules for the original vehicle then as noted by Guy you can't retain the identity and have to use one of the other routes to register for the road, e.g. IAC which is a whole different set of hoops to jump through.

Pretty clear from this that the Consul should end up with a Q plate:
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles

I saw an "interesting" Moggie Minor on ebay recently where the shell had been grafted onto a Suzuki jeep chassis to make it 4x4 - fun and looked reasonably well executed but it was still registered and MOT'd with the original historic documents which from the above is not permitted.

For a Midget my understanding is that you can replace bonnet/wings/doors/bootlid freely as as these are not part of the monocoque but other bits have to be repaired with original spec parts.
AdrianR

This thread was discussed between 08/12/2021 and 13/12/2021

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