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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Distributor Options New or Refurb

Any of you any good or bad experiences on changing distributors?

A few years ago I decided to change to electronic ignition and unfortunately went for the Accuspark new distributor, module and coil system which was great at first but after a couple of failed modules and now after several distributor caps only lasting a few weeks, I presume the distributor is now faulty.

There appears several options, get the old Lucas distributor refurbished and new Petronix or Powerspark module added which will no doubt take a fair length of time or purchase a new distributor/module.

Have any of the new distributors been found to be reliable as I am obviously trying to avoid another cheap Chinese copy that will fail in another year or two.

Tim Lynam

Now you've learnt about going cheap go for fit 'n' forget, performance starting/running and reliability. - https://csi-ignition.com/mg-midget/
Nigel Atkins

Nigel is right.

The one hat fits all claims of some of these new distributors appalls me. A single unit marketed as fitting a wide range of vehicles with widely differing advance requirements is clearly a charlaton. Not to mention the damage that its 40+ deg total advance will cause.

We have run the $ numbers over the full electronic options like csi and 123, and for a std engine it is quite close in cost alone by the time we have spplied and fitted a reliable electronic trigger and reset the advance curve back to what it was when new. For a modified engine being optimised on the rolling road programmable full electronic is way cheaper when time savings are factored in.
Paul Walbran

Tim

I would be tempted to get the Distributor Doctor to do a rebuild: https://www.distributordoctor.com/

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

I know Nigel hates this but I kept my old points system and got the distributor rebuilt by Aldon.
Never had a problem and easy to carry a set of points and a condenser.
Of course the points need periodic adjustments but with annual mileage around 2000 its not a massive chore. Important to get quality components however fron the distributor doctor or NOS Lucas.
Bob Beaumont

I'm with Bob. I rebuilt the standard points distributor myself. Nothing against electronic ignition and other changes (I have an alternator and relays) but you can't fix an electronic dist. on the road (well I suppose you could carry a conventional dist. as a backup). I just need a screwdriver and long nose pliers to change points. Much cheaper as well.
Bill Bretherton

Nigel--Nice to see you out and about--
William Revit

Thanks all for the comments, I understand the views of those preferring points and condenser but I am on the electronic preference as always remember back in the 70's & 80's having to check points and replacing them along with condensers, the electronic ignition seems so much smoother and less hassle, until the cheap ones pack up!

I have borrowed a friends electronic H & H distributor and once fitted the cars sparked back into life.

As Willy say's it's good to see Nigel back with his thoughts.

Anyone any views on the programmable via laptop electronic systems, expensive but I like the idea of seeing the changes and tweaks on a screen.

Tim Lynam

You can keep the standard points and use something like the Vellemen K2543 kit which gives the benefits of an electronic ignition while retaining the points. Leave the condenser in place but disconnected so if the kit fails you can fall back on the points. I've used one on my Sprite and never had an issue with it. Due to the much lower current switched by the points the only wear is on the points heal which I found negligible once bedded in.

https://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=460636
David Billington

I had a Sparkrite 2000 system on my MGB - similar to what David noted - if it failed it had a change over switch so could be easily reverted to original points operation + it had an inbuild static timing light. worked well never had an issue with it.

Seems they still do a similar item :-

https://sparkrite.co.uk/electronic-ignition-kits/

I changed my Dizzi for an Aldon item, its based on a new D45 unit.

R.
richard b

Over many years I have found the Aldon Ignitor / Petronix ignition to be reliable.
Dizzy Doctor or A.C.Dodd can rebuild and, if reqd, recurve a dizzy.

Like Richard, many moons ago, I bought a Sparkrite. It had a blue case and, being positive earth, came as a kit to be soldered and assembled.
At that time I worked with a ‘Radio Ham’ who looked at the kit and threw some of the electricals in the bin. I was presented with a shopping list. Once
Soldered and assembled it ran faultlessly for years.
Alan Anstead

Tim, re programmeable via laptop - well worth the money for a modified engine. The pre-programmed 16 curves sound a good range but never seem to fit exactly what the engine needs.

Whwn I first fitted electronic (magnetronic points replacement module), I kept a spare points distributor in the boot, much like a security blanket. But it never was used. I eventually weaned myself off it, and have had 20 years electronic no issues and still counting.
Paul Walbran

Hi Tim,

Agree with Paul and others. How they sell these new "universal" distributors is beyond me. And I'm all for totally programmable... although my methods are a bit extreme! :-D

Coincidentally, I was having a tidy up and clear out of garage stuff this week and was going to try to sell on my old dizzy etc. You can have it if it helps?

It's a solid, proper Lucas dizzy and the correct part no. for the Triumph 1500 (41449). I had tested a few years ago and was bang on the book specs in terms of the mechanical advance curve. Decent shaft with no play.

Accuspark electronic module and genuine dizzy doctor red rotor.

It served me well for years, if it gets you out of a hole I'll pack it up and get it in the post to you.

Cheers,
Malc.






Malcolm

I have now gone back to points after my electronic system failed and I had no way of determining what was wrong. The main reason for the change however was difficulty in setting the timing. With points I can set the pulley to the correct pointer, attach a bulb from the CB terminal to earth and slowly rotate the distributer until the light goes out. When I fitted the elcrtonic set up I removed the distributer to give it a clean and lubrication but didn't want to connect a bulb in case I damaged the electronics so turned the distributer with the main ignition lead removed from the cap and placed close to earth. I expected to see a spark as the electronic points "opened". Nothing happened but when I turned the engine with the starter there was a spark. It looks to me that with electronic ignition the engine must be rotating at speed for spark to trigger. Eventually I mangaed to sort things by removing the plugs, connecteing a strobe to number one plug whilst it rested on the cylinder head and turning the engine over on the starter. With my 1275 this was a two man job since I had to lie under the car with the strobe to see the pulley whist a friend rotated the distributer body. (Since then I have fitted a new pointer to the side of the chain cover and renotched the pulley) I am told the some of the more expensive electronic kits have a LED that lights when the ignition is triggered but mine didn't. Maybe this is something to check before purchase? My friend suggested timing the engine with points and then replacing them insitu with the electronic module and mangetic ring but this is a messy job and I am uncertain if points and electronics trigger at the same time. Another way would be for someone to turn the ignition key whilst a second person rotated the distributer until the engine started. Problem here could be an engine starting with too much advance and destroying the bigends.

Jan T
J Targosz

Jan
I'm guessing the fully electronic distributors with electronic advance must be set so that the "trigger" point (for the rotational sensor) is itself always advanced, otherwise I don't see how it could work I.e. the trigger at low revs will result in a delayed ignition, to make it nearer TDC, then as the engine revs the ignition will be electronically advanced (enabling external adjustment on some systems).

Therefore, it may well be difficult to set initial timing as you allude to.
Bill Bretherton

Hi Bill,

The kit I used (purchased at the NEC Classic Car Show) simply replaced the points in the original distributor. There was a red coloured pick up which used the points fixing screws and a circular collar wich was pushed down over the shaft cam lobes. Two wires came out of the pick up and were connected to the terminals on the coil. Spark advance was still taken care of by the weights in the distributor. I have woundered that perhaps I should have fitted the kit with the distributor in the car (difficult access) or should have marked it prior to removing. This assumes points and electronics trigger at the same time. I removed the distributor to give it a good clean and inspection and didn't bother about marking its position thinking I could easilly reset the static timing. Considering "everyone" recommends electronic ignition, including all the magazines, there must be a simple way of setting the initial timing. Not everyone has a strobe. What have others done?

Jan T
J Targosz

Tim (and others),
I was just in here looking for something (and again now).

When a mate and I fitted the 123 to my Midget over 13 years and tens of thousands of miles ago we put it on the base curve setting of the four in the group for my car. After checking and a test run as my Midget was "tuned" and "a bit above book" power wise I asked my mate if we should try the next step up, he laughed.

Having gone to Peter Burgess's a few times on his rollers there was never any reason to alter the curve program setting on the 123 and at some point I forget the dissy wasn't twisted from its Tipex marks (from many lots of the dissy having to come out for far too many various reasons) despite other changes.

So unless you enjoy the endless fiddling with settings like those that can't leave the carbs alone I think on a fairly standard engine or even 'tuned a bit above book' engine you're wasting your money and time, but you might prefer messing with the car to driving it in which case you could adjust it for every journey.
Nigel Atkins

I tune mine annually when I change the oil. I don't endlessly fiddle with the carbs or the points and the car has never let me down in the last 20 years of regular driving. Perhaps I am just lucky.............!

Bob Beaumont

Jan, I have the Simon BBC one which is similar to yours. Like you I assumed I would be able to static time it as a starting point but like you there was no spark when turning it over by hand. Luckily I hadnt removed the distributor so just installed it and tried starting it. It started ok but when I checked it with my strobe it was a bit out but not far off.

Trev
T Mason

There’s a fair few different views on which way to go, thanks for all the options.

Malc, thanks for your kind offer of your spare distributor, Richard has kindly lent me his H&H Spare and it works a treat but I appreciate your offer.
Tim Lynam

Hi Trev,

Looks like an alectronic system triggers at the same point as points so it means either converting the distributer in situ or marking its position before removing. My kit didn't mention this and is something one needs to be aware of.

Jan T
J Targosz

I bought an electronic distributor from Minispares because it was described as suitable for engines with 285,286 and 296 cams (I have a 286). It is based on a 45D but modified to fit where a 25d fits. It also has vacuum advance which I wanted to retain as it is exclusively a road car. Minispares do say that the distributors are not the same as the rubbish sold by most other suppliers, which is another reason I bought it. When I got it there was nothing whatsoever written or molded into the case to suggest it wasn't the same as all the rubbish sold by others. They could have got the maker to stamp or scribe something onto it such as "made in UK", I'm sure they have the clout to specify this!!
Anyway, I'm very happy with it. It certainly works very well. That's not difficult really as when I examined the old one (fitted with an Accuspark), if I applied suction to the vacuum port nothing happened. The port held vacuum but the link didn't move so was stuck at some advance angle which threw the whole curve out.

The only negative was, as mentioned somewhere, there is no light to indicate when the points open and it needs to be rotating at some minimum speed to cause a spark. In the end I did it dynamically at the angle suggested in my Haynes manual for a 1275 engine.
Rob
MG Moneypit

This is what I bought.

https://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Electrics/Ignition/Distributors/C-27H7699.aspx

but it's supplied with an inline cap so I had to buy a side entry type.

https://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Electrics/Ignition/Service_parts/GDC142.aspx

Rob
MG Moneypit

Jan
Your kit with mechanical advance probably uses a "hall" sensor which is a switch actuated by a passing magnet. In that case the dissy will be positioned as normal, initially. However, those with electronic advance and variable programmable advance curves must be set with the trigger device in an advanced position at rest, otherwise I can't see how advance can be achieved I.e. low revs spark production will be delayed electronically and gradually advanced with higher revs.

Your kit would need a 12v supply (via the coil) for the hall sensor hence the two wires.
Bill Bretherton

While we are on the subject, I’m thinking of replacing my points with electronic ignition, probably PowerSpark from Simon BBC. The problem I have is that I’ve got a very original looking set up with grub screw type dizzy cap and copper core leads. Is it correct that I can’t use copper cored leads with any of the drop in electronic ignition kits?
John Payne

"Having gone to Peter Burgess's a few times on his rollers there was never any reason to alter the curve program setting on the 123"

Yup!

A lesson I learnt the hard and slightly swear-y way from Peter Burgess (in relation to modifying anything)...

You think you know better than Austin/BL/Lucas whoever?
You think they won't have done a huge amount of testing to determine the correct curve?

:-)

Also, re: timing, anything other than timing it with a gun is going to be wrong, so no point faffing round trying to static time it. Just chuck it in, get an assistant to spin the engine over on the starter and time it properly.

Cheers,
Malc
Malcolm

Bill what do you mean by "positioned as normal". I would normally set the crank to about 8 degs BTDC with No 1 on firing stroke and simply turn the points distrubuter until I saw a spark. You simply can't do this with a Hall Effect setup. I didn't know when the magnetic disc actually trigered a spark, is it as soon as the magnet reaches the electronic unit, when it is in the centre or when it leaves. My fear was setting the timing too early and damaging the big ends.

I am quite happy to run with points. The big attraction with the Sprite is its simplicity and a 123 distributer is a bit too sophisiticated for me.


Jan T
J Targosz

Jan
By "normal" I mean same as you'd do with points so, say, 8 degrees advance as you suggest. A Hall sensor will have a "sweet spot" where it responds - I don't know where physically. I suppose I was assuming one would mark the old dissy position, before removal (always a good idea) and put new/ modified one in same place.

You'd need a lot of advance to damage the big ends surely. That has never occurred to me. Perhaps someone with better engine knowledge than me could comment.
Bill Bretherton

HI Bill,

"If I had known then what I know now" I would have marked the distributer before removing. I have allways found it easy to set staic timing with a bulb across the points and assumed I could do the same with the electronic set up. So it is a word of warning to others - read the instructions with the kit and mark up the position of the distributer.

I had considered getting my wife to turn the ignition key whist I rotated the distributer until the engine started but this could have resulted in a hugh advance.

Jan T
J Targosz

"David Billington, Wiltshire, United Kingdom
You can keep the standard points and use something like the Vellemen K2543 kit which gives the benefits of an electronic ignition while retaining the points. Leave the condenser in place but disconnected so if the kit fails you can fall back on the points. I've used one on my Sprite and never had an issue with it. Due to the much lower current switched by the points the only wear is on the points heal which I found negligible once bedded in.

https://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=460636"

I totally agree with David. Vellemann kits are cheap and just work and if they break you can just use the points and reconnect the condensor.

My 61 MG has come with a mystery electronic ignition which might never break but if it does, I've no idea what to look for to replace it and no idea what to carry as a spare so on the to-do list is back to points, fitted but disconnected condensor and Vellemann.






P Peters

This thread was discussed between 28/04/2023 and 02/05/2023

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.