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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Door check strap

Hi All
A silly, but irritating thing happened today.
When getting out of the car, my shoe caught the check strap where it fits to the inside of the cabin. One screw seemed very loose, so I unscrewed it to investigate further. Would there have been captive nuts at one time? There are just two holes now, roughly 1/4" diameter and looking to be original, in which the screws (one is a wood screw!) "fitted". I now have a check strap that is completely non functional...
My thoughts are to maybe get some nuts welded over the holes, what does the team think please?
Dom
Dominic Excell

There would originally have been captive nuts and 2-off 1/4UNF screws - countersunk IIRC.
Dave O'Neill2

You may be able to fit M5 rivnuts, which require a hole of 7.2mm to fit. Two factors you will have to consider is how much corrosion is present on the panel and are the existing holes distorted, as this may prevent a good anchor for the rivnut.
I used this method to get round the same problem. Remove the upholstery panel first. Plenty of kits on ebay.
Derek Stewart

Dom,
just for info the screws are - (RMP316), screw, csk, raised head, chrome, UNF, no.10 X 1" courtesy of Paul Hunt's site - Translate fastener part numbers - http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/partnos.htm

under the vinyl strap should also be a shaped metal reinforcing bracket and over the vinyl strap a metal tip cover that the screws go through

the navy and black vinyl straps (and interior panels and seat covers) are very hard to tell apart unless very polished and in bright light
Nigel Atkins

Thanks all for the tips chaps.
I've seen a rather elegant sliding wedge type fitting tool, that I'll probably buy, I'll then have to think of lots of other things to fit rivnuts to! Only problem is that they are metric nuts... I would have much preferred to stay with imperials... but then who is to know except me? :-)
On another topic, I've now found some new old stock RHP front wheel bearings. Also new old stock UK made rear bearings too (non-rhp). I'm determined to eliminate that irritating "rhythmic thrumming" noise that I can feel through the steering wheel!
Apart from that, it is great how with lots of driving it is really coming to life again.
Dom
Dominic Excell

Dom !!

did you have t mention such things !??!

for that - I can tell you for certain that imperial screws will fit in those metric rivnuts
Nigel Atkins

thought I'd just wind you all up.... front wheel bearings front wheel bearings front wheel bearings front wheel bearings front wheel bearings
Dominic Excell

Hi

You can get Imperial rivet nuts: http://www.memfast.co.uk/shop/vcat1.asp?cat=2250003939

Other places sell them, just google imperial rivet nut. Rivnut is a trade name I think.

On fasteners it is worth remembering that light aircraft often use non-metric, including UNF as well as a range of types of rivets. So can be found from racing car parts suppliers (Raceparts, Trident Racing Supplies and Merlin Mtorsports) as well as light aircraft parts suppliers such as LAS Aerospace and Spruce and Speciality. Dzuz and spherical bearings are aircraft bits that racers took a liking to, as well as aircraft grade bolts, screws and nuts.

Cheers
Mike

PS who mentioned front wheel bearings? Time for a 500 message thread...

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

PS

Rivet nut setting tools are pricey.
M Wood

How does a rivet nut setting tool differ from an ordinary pop rivet gun?

I presume the principle is the same, but they use a screw in adapter of some sort? I have an industrial air fed rivet gun that gets little use and am now wondering if it could be adapted?
Guy W

Guy, A mandrel is used to compress the waste on the nut. Mike's link has a drawing that illustrates the method of fixing. http://www.memfast.co.uk/shop/Vprod2.asp?cat=6138003713.
I already had a kit so the M5 option was a cheap fix.
Derek Stewart

Derek,
Yes I have seen rivet nuts and realise that they work by a partial collapse so that the threaded portion nips up against the back of the blind panel. What I haven't sussed out is what is used to pull that bit and initiate the collapse. I can only imagine it is a removable screw in mandrel that is in turn gripped by the setting tool.

But with the setting tool kits apparently at around £100 I wondered (hoped) that there may be a way of using an adapter in a rivet gun.
Guy W

Guy,

You can buy rivnut setting tools off ebay for around £15 delivered and also lot of vendors selling small quantities of rivnuts for £3 -£4. I got one and it was fine with normal steel rivnuts but not happy with stainless steel ones which are harder to set. I've always used metric rivnuts but seeing as the hole diameters are metric equivalent of inch sizes I expect you can get the rivnuts for the correct UNF thread if desired.
David Billington

Thanks David,
I probably need to just abandon my musings of adapting an air-fed rivet setting tool. That's getting too close to a Prop idea anyway! ;-)
An e-bay cheapo will probably do well enough for the very occasional use I would make of it anyway!
Guy W

Here's the setting tool I've just bought on ebay - item 380629010721
Measured the holes in the post - no corrosion or distortion at all, but the holes are 8.3mm dia - which would require M5 and a half! Either I'll need to go up to M6 (rather on the large size) or reposition the holes for the smaller size.


Dominic Excell

as it's all hidden by an interior trim panel how about putting an oversized panel over the existing holes and drilling that with the correct size holes
Nigel Atkins

Hi

In answer to he question what is a rivnut setting tool, it's just a specialist version of a hand pop rivet gun that can only be used for setting rivnuts, not ordinary pop rivets, see:
http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=J00228QJ9

Or you can get a conversion kit for an ordinary hand pop riveter:
http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=T02UY0WNP

Or use this: http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=L003PS311

Guy, if you wanted something heavy duty for an airline: http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/category?id=J02RMY7O5

Rivnuts can be bought individually http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=O00DHQGIL check that the thread is UNF.

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Mike,
Thanks for all those links. Very useful.
I don't actually have a job for rivet nuts at the moment, but have had several occasions in the past when they would have solved a problem rather neatly! And having an underused air fed pop riveter I just wondered if it could be adapted. Seems it could be, although for the amount I would use it I see from the links you posted that one of the basic hand setting tools would probably be a simpler option.
Guy W

Thanks for the help chaps. I did as Nigel suggested, made an oversize plate which I riveted in place, even though the rivnuts very securely worked on a 1mm over-size hole. I bought the cover and reinforcing plates too, so now there is no danger of b*ggering up the outside of the A post any more!
Now - what can I use the rest of the rivnuts on...?
Dominic Excell

I bought one of the "sliding wedge" type ones for £20... seemed well made and does the job nicely... I used it to set rivnuts in the panels for attaching my trim panels

PS - don't try and use imperial threads in metric rivnuts. Even if you find one of them to be the same TPI, they have different profiles and you are quite likley to strip the nut.

C L Carter

I bought metric "oval" countersunk machine screws to suit. Fitted perfectly of course. I might well make up new trim panels and secure them with rivnuts, as at the moment it's a bit of a mish-mash of various self tappers. Good idea Mr Carter.
Dominic Excell

Hi

I know I am in danger of turning this into 'Fasteners Anonymous' but anchor nuts can be useful - a threaded insert like a rivnut, but attached by a rivet into a tab either side of the thread: http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/category?id=X02WBH1GR

Another potentially useful fastener: Tinnermans, both ordinary http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=G3U5NYJH and an anchor version: http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=J00Q7TTHN

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

This thread was discussed between 14/08/2013 and 24/08/2013

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