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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Dried out rubber

What is the best 'feed' for dried rubber?

I am just freshening up my frogeye windscreen before fitting. It's not in bad condition, but the glass to frame rubber is pretty dried up, though not yet badly cracked. It needs something that soaks in, not merely a cosmetic blackening product and I don't want anything with silicone in it!

Suggestions for feeding to revive it? I have previously used Vaseline - which leaves rubber a bit greasy, and mineral brake fluid, which does a fair job of soaking in and softening but maybe there is something better to use?
GuyW

I was going go say Vaseline but somebody on the TRE thread the other day suggested hand cream so maybe that's worth a go.

Trev
T Mason

Autoglym Bumper & Trim Gel doesn't contain silicone and is no longer green but clear and has a lovely smell, I think it might have been petroleum based before, but I might have remembered wrong, it doesn't say now and the smell now I think is like marzipan so no telling what's in it. - http://www.autoglym.com/bumper-and-trim-gel

Gummi Pflege Rubber Care Stick was a favourite, I've never tried it - "Einszett Gummi Pflege Stift contains no silicone"
"its water based and contains no solvents of any kind"

BTW Gummi Pflege is German for . . . rubber maintenance/care!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251012012133
Nigel Atkins

This stuff? MG Chemicals Rubber Renue
https://tinyurl.com/y3xn5m8b

It gets 4.5 stars on Amazon (and it is an appropriate manufacturer!). However it does say the rubber remains tacky as it's predominantly used for industrial stuff such as rollers so that may be an issue. Doesn't look like it contains silicone but best used in the open as it's 100% VOC.

Not tried mineral brake fluid, presumably you have to be very careful to keep it away from any painted bodywork?


Jeremy MkIII

Regular use of the Autoglym always used to keep the rubber on my cars fine, that is until classic owners more thoroughly insisted that we should all be sold piss-poor rubber, gawd bless 'em.
Nigel Atkins

guy

I found that once the rubber had gone hard it was not very efficient at stopping water getting it. Despite best efforts Ended up replacing it the end. Its a weird seal as the filler strip is on the inside. I found sealing with Arbomast Autograde helped as the seal on its own wasn't enough.
Bob Beaumont

I used the "Gummi Pflege" mentioned by Nigel on the seals of the folding hardtop on the Focus cabriolet we had before the Volvosaurus.
ISTR it wasn't cheap but it worked very well. Cleaned up the rubber and restored it near new looking and stopped the drips immediately.
Just my 2cents.
Greybeard

Thanks. This Gummy stuff sounds good. Maybe try that. What I want to avoid is the sort of cosmetic stuff as favoured by detailers, that doesnt necessarily do anything for reviving the sealing qualities.

I do take Bob's point about leakage but at this stage will try reviving what I have first. Time will tell if that is good enough, whilst at the same time I am wary of buying a replacement seal made from short-life rubber!
GuyW

That German stuff does sound good, think I'll get some for the same purpose.
Bill Bretherton

Having checked, I am less sure about that , stuff. I had thought it was a specific recognised product but it seems everyone is selling stuff with that name,and not necessarily to the same formulation. It also implies it is more of a surface treatment to prevent door seals etc from sticking. Not what I had in mind.

The product Rubber renu by Techsil that Jeremy linked to sounds more like it, designed to penetrate into and revive old rubber. I will try that.
GuyW

I tend to assume anything German will be ok but it looks like you're right. Maybe the Techsil stuff then.
Bill Bretherton

Guy,
I take your point about Gummi Pflege, I get the impression it a good product and being water based can have its advantages. I suppose it's like aspirin lots of different manufacturers but remains a reasonable product, if suitable.

Krytox might tick your chemical boxes, again favoured by German car owners, but you might have to shop around for price as the price will only tick you off.

An email to their technical department might give you a selection of products suitable for what you want. -
http://www.krytox.com/en
Nigel Atkins

A late friend of mine, Jean Amos, who donated her Austin Metropolitan to the Haynes Museum at Sparkford always used to swear by hand cream for keeping rubber supple.
Alan Anstead

Alan, I remember Jean and her husband so sad to learn she has passed away. Bob
Bob Beaumont

Bob
Bill Worviel died maybe ten years ago. Jean pre-deceased him by several years. They were good friends.
Picture is with my Frogeye.
Alan


Alan Anstead

Alan

I have somewhere a Metropolitan sales brochure Jean gave me. I remember buying a trailer from them. Lovely couple.
Bob Beaumont

Well I opted for that Rubber renue stuff and a small 125ml bottle has now arrived. The bottle has lots of very dire H&S warnings which I followed but no instructions at all on how to use it!
I tested a small bit by damping a rag and wiping it on and it looks better already but will need more applications. I do need to check and see if the online data sheet says anything about use or is just a repeat of the H&S warnings.

On a different point, I noticed that the top of the Frogeye windscreen frame lifts up from the glass quite easily. My screen doesn't have the centre reinforcing rod which the later cars have. I presume that's right? Maybe when it is bolted in place on the car there will be some extra tension on it to stiffen it up a bit.
GuyW

Guy

the screen is correct there is no additional reinforcement. It doesn't change much when bolted on either!
Bob Beaumont

Guy,

I don't trust the rubber to seal either to glass or the body especially if not new.
I've always added a bit of the Arbo Autograde that Bob mentioned. Did it on both my 'B' and midget rebuild - especially at the lower corners.
Being soluble to white spirits meant it cleaned off well from areas not taped up and in both of my cases did not effect the paint - do check on yours if you use it !!

R.
richard b

Guy,

a link to the instructions - such as they are.
https://tinyurl.com/y3hxbo5c
Jeremy MkIII

Thanks Jeremy. I had seen that on their site when I placed the order and that's how I applied it. I was surprised there was nothing on the bottle label about how to use.
GuyW

Yes with such volatile stuff you'd have thought the instructions would be repeated on the bottle or accompanying leaflet.
Good it seems to be effective.
Jeremy MkIII

Blimey, I remember that stuff from my IT hardware days. Qume and DEC(LQP402 I think, - it was a badged Qume) daisy wheel printers had plattens that were very expensive to replace, circa 100 quid in the early 80's. We used this stuff to refresh and clean the dried out surface, so that it would grip the paper. Worked ok up to a point and probably doubled the working life of the platten. Never worried about health issues at all. In fact, we got bored doing it, and gave bottles of the stuff to all the secretaries, so they'd diy it, and stop calling us 🤣.

Who'd have thought it could be used for screen rubbers? If only I'd known lol.



anamnesis

Well this stuff does clean up the rubber quite nicely, without leaving a 'polish' on it. Its ok but I wouldn't say it adds any body to old cracked rubber as I had hoped. I think brake fluid does a better job at that.

Spent a wet day polishing up the windscreen frame and side pillars with a succession of compounds using different grade buffing discs in an electric drill. Monotonous task!
GuyW

When I dismantled this windscreen there was the remains of some sort of sealant, possibly linseed oil putty, between the side stanchions and the glass frame, where it screws together. Was this normal or a PO's addition?
GuyW

Hi Guy,

When I got my car back from the blasters I put it all together including the windscreen and could resist trying to polish up the frame. Also used drill mounted buffing wheels and yes it looks great but it took a long time just to do half an upright.

So I thought I'd leave the rest of it until I was ready to fit it properly.


James Paul

Guy

yes this was the old sealant. it may have been some form of putty. It stops water running through the stanchion although given a Frog leaks everywhere anyway it did seem rather pointless!
Bob Beaumont

Hi James, My frame was similar to yours with areas where the anodising had worn through, plus scratches. Polishing at first highlighted the worn through areas and it looked worse! Persistance + boredom results in removal of the anodising and it looks much better.
But without that prorection it will deteriorate but the plan is to treat it with an application of this stuff from Everbright:
https://tinyurl.com/y48eu3kp

Thanks Bob, glazing putty it is then!







GuyW

Presumably you could use the Everbrite on chrome to seal the surface and prevent pitting?
Philip Sellen

I really am tempted to paint the windscreen stanchions and frame with something like Rustoleum silver as it can be kept shiny fairly easily. Is that a big mistake?
Bill Bretherton

Guy,

I have found similar white sealant on later cars as well.
I doubt it was ordinary putty as that is basically slaked lime and linceed oil so I would have though corosive to ali.
My guess was an early oil based mastic that dried out.

As I noted above I have used the black Arbo Automotive mastic.

R.
richard b

Anodising is a fairly cheap process so it could be redone. Last time I had some done it was more than the area on a Sprite and I could have had 6X the quantity done for the minimum order charge of £50 at the time. It can be done at home as well, plenty of information on the internet about doing it. I was told the first part of the process was a reverse etch to remove any existing surface oxide so likely it would remove any existing anodise layer.
David Billington

Philip, I am experimenting with this Everbright stuff. I asked around about it here and elsewhere when I was considering it, some months ago, but no one seemed to have heard of it! Their web site makes high claims for it so we shall see.

I did consider collecting all the alloy bits up and sending them away for anodising but I admit to being too disorganised and piece-meal in my work approach to manage that. This Everbright is my experimental alternative. The frame and stanchions are now all stripped and polished up and do look good!

Thanks for the tip off Richard. Perhaps plumbers mait (putty) isn't the stiff to use after all. It will be hidden so that Arbo mastic is best.
GuyW

As I was tidying up and putting stuff away this evening I foolishly thought I would dig out the replacement screen to scuttle rubber and check it for fit. An hour later, and mucky with washing up liquid I have managed to get all of 3 inches of the seal fitted into the slot on the base of the screen. There must be a better way!

It is inconceivable that men on the assembly line in Abingdon spent their days fitting these seals with washing up liquid and a blunt screwdriver. They would have gone insane before the end of the second shift!

I am not even sure the seal I have is right for the Frogeye screen. Any recommendations on how to proceed?



GuyW

guy

the image is not that clear but I don't remember it taking more than a few minutes to fit.
Bob Beaumont

The photo was to illustrate the section of the rubber seal that I have because I am not sure if it is correct - or indeed where I got it from. It possibly came in a box with other parts for this car - several of which turned out to be for random other vehicles!
GuyW

Guy, I'll post a picture of the profile of my seal, as yet unfitted, tomorrow
Bill Bretherton

This is my new seal:

Looks same as yours Guy.


Bill Bretherton

This is my new seal:


Bill Bretherton

Very similar Bill. The ends of the 'foot' bit that goes into the slot are square ended, mine are rounded, but otherwise it looks identical.

Let me know if you devise a successful technique!
GuyW

I did my seal back in 2009 so perhaps they were better made, easier to fit? for example the current batch of sidescreen rubbers are quite poor. The original ones I fitted in 2009 were a doddle. When the sidescreens were stolen I had to refurbish another pair. I spent half a day on each screen as the rubber was too targe to fit the slot in the sidescreen on some edges. On others it went straight in. I tried buying a couple from different suppliers but they were all the same. I just used the traditional well rounded blunt screwdriver and lots of washing up liquid!!
Bob Beaumont

Be a while before I do mine. Just to confirm, the curved lip does go to the front, doesn't it?
Bill Bretherton

Yes, curved lip to the front. I did wonder if they were supposed to have an extra bead to sit against the front edge of the frame. Like the later wind up window car screens.

I still wonder how this was done in the factory. A special insertion tool perhaps?
GuyW

Having checked some measurements with a Vernier caliper, I am suspicious of this seal. Can I compare these with yours, Bill.

The slot in the frame is quite hard to measure but I trimmed close fitting strip of card to slide up the slot and that measures 7.12mm. But the corresponding width of the rubber seal that is supposed to go in there is 8.48mm. Maybe that extra 1.36mm explains why I was having so much difficulty!

Can you measure yours like that Bill.

The other thing which seems odd is that the arms of the top of the rubber T bar are unequal. The rear one is 2.6mm but the forward pointing one is 3.84mm. If the front one were reduced to match the other, then the total would be 7.04. pretty close to the slot size, give or take the accuracy of my measuring!

Maybe I need to trim it down?
GuyW

Without squeezing the rubber with the vernier I get 7.7 mm at the most, which seems ok (I haven't tried fitting yet). The front part of the tee does look more than the rear, hard to measure. It does look like yours needs trimming Guy but I don't know how you'd do that. Painstakingly with a razor blade perhaps?
Bill Bretherton

It slices quite well with a Stanley blade. I tried trimming about a 4" length and then fitting it. It's still quite slow going with soap and screwdriver, but at least it goes in without damaging it.

I have been doing some more polishing of the frame so will come back later to fitting this seal. But at least I now know how to deal with it!
GuyW

Frame seal now fitted. It took most of a morning, but the sun was shining, the birds were singing etc, etc.

Now to fit the screen to the car. Do the ends of the seal I have just fitted tuck under the stanchions at the ends, or are they trimmed to follow the curve of the forward pointing part of the stanchion base? Either would seem to work. A photo might help.

And, where the leading edge of the flap part of the seal passes the wiper spindle mounting,they overlap, lifting the edge of the seal up a bit. I could trim a little crescent off the seal but this doesn't feel right. Is this seal correct or another inaccurately made part with the flap longer than it should be?
GuyW

Or, should my flap be tucked in? 😱

Not immediately obvious but photo one (off side) shows flap extended forwards, as with later cars. Photo 2 (near side) shows flap tucked back under. Both would work I think.





GuyW

Mine just tucks under the stanchion at the ends with the flap tucked back under but I don't think its wrong either way. My seal does not extend quite as far as the chrome bezel of the wiper mounting. Looking at the photo the 'flap' seems bigger than mine. It just covers the ridge on the scuttle top.
Bob Beaumont

Bob, I am not sure I have explained that sufficiently. On photo 2, the leading edge of the seal across the full width of the car, is rolled back under, rather than extended forwards. Thats why the rubber looks narrower in photo 2.

I looked through all the photos in Horler, but none are distinct enough to be sure how its fitted.
GuyW

Guy

See images of my seal which hopefully explains it. Also shot of the seal around the wiper arm.





Bob Beaumont

I think do Bob. It looks like the leading edge of the seal is rolled back underneath, rather than extended out forwards. Or is it just a much narrower seal?
GuyW

I think its a narrower seal. It was possibly a NOS one as it fitted quite easily. The edge of the seal just curls slightly rather than actually rolled up.
Bob Beaumont

Now back at base I have been able to zoom in on the laptop and look more closely at your photos Bob. All is now clear! Thanks.
GuyW

This thread was discussed between 30/09/2020 and 08/10/2020

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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