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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Electrical - indicator lights

I need help/advice on fixing indicators.
1979 midget. I have owned the car for a few years and never had any electrical problems. I have not driven the car for two years. I put in a new Battery, started right up and ran well. Only problem was the indicators worked, then didn't work, now only the left side works. I have tried to make sure that grounds are clean and tight. Reading archives I thought that I would try the Hazard Switch. I replaced the Hazard Switch, Map Light and tightened up the radio area. I ran the car and checked the battery which read 13.30; added lights, blower and indicators and it dropped to 12.45; it was idling at 900 RPMS. I am not a mechanic and certainly not an auto electrician; any detailed help will be greatly appreciated.
L Holden

What you call a good earth, unfortunately, the electrons that constitute the required current flow, do not.

In short, take another look at your earths.

As a test, get a long length of wire.

Connect one end to the -ve side of the battery.

Then open the indicator cover, and with the ignition and appropriate indicator on, touch the other end of the length of wire to the earth on the metal casing. Does it work yet?

Lawrence Slater

Sounds to me like a problem with the indicator stalk switch.

I am not sure but I think you should have indicators on a steering column switch (1500 readers will correct if necessary)

This switch is notorious and the contacts within the switch can be cleaned (well mine can anyway.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Are all of the indicator lights on one side not working at all? This would suggest a break in the live feed to that circuit. If only one bulb is not working, or has a poor earth, then the others on the same side will usually flash at a faster rate and this can be a useful diagnostic clue. If indicators work on one side, but not the other then the flasher unit is probably also OK.

If I understand you correctly they all work for one direction but none at all for the other. That suggests a fault with the live feed wire. I would check the multi-block connector between the wires of the sub-loom that goes to the indicator column stalk switch and the main loom. You can find this by tracing the bundle of wires coming out of the back of the steering column cowl. Within a few inches there will be a multi-plug which may just need a good wiggle to get it connecting again. Another possibility is a faulty column stalk switch unit but these are more complex and more costly so check the easy things first.

Guy
addendum: Bob is more succinct than me and types faster! But I would still check the multi-plug first.
Guy

13.3 volts at idle with nothing on sounds ok but at low revs the alternator doesn't work that well so to check the charge rate you need the revs up a bit to 2000+ and ideally it should be steady on about 14.30 volts. If you rev the engine higher it should hold the voltage and not go higher. How good the voltage regulation is depends on whether it has an older eletro mechanical regulator or a newer solid state. You can tell a car with an old regulator because its lights are flaring up and down when the car is idleing.

With everything on at idle and only 12.45 volts you've proved it's not charging and the battery is supplying some of the load. Normal charged battery voltage 12.6 volts. Not that unusual for an older car.

The indicators have a common +ve supply and earth out at the lights. If one side is working then the supply to the flasher and out to the switch is ok. What's left is the connections at the switch, globes and earths at the lights.I'd be checking the earths on the lights on the side that isn't working first. Lawrence's idea should quickly find the problem. Also check for blown globes.

You both type a lot faster than me :(
Greg H

My initial reaction to 'only one side of the indicators are working' is to say that the hazard warning switch is at fault - very common problem. But, you say you've changed that? For a known good one?

It's interesting you say that, initially, neither side of the indicators worked, then only one side. I'm inclined to think it's not an earth fault, but a fault at the indicator stalk, specifically on the bulb side of the indicator stalk contacts.
Andy Hock

"have not driven the car for two years."

"Only problem was the indicators worked, then didn't work, now only the left side works"

First and very easy thing to check, is the earths to the left side. Take if from there. :).
Lawrence Slater

Whoops, sorry, check the right side earths. lol.
Lawrence Slater

Another common problem is corrosion in the globe holder. Pull globes out and give them a quick sand and in the holder too.
Greg H

if you should need one unless manufacture has improved since 5 years ago don't get a new made indicator unit instead get an old working unit

as said check earths, wires and connections, switches, flasher units, light units and bulbs are need to be clean, secure and protected

the fact that at one time all the indicators didn't work may or may not be significant and possibly suggest indicator unit, live supply or switch or just lack of use

regular use with help keep things working and find the wrinkles that the 2 year lay up has helped to introduce and the more you use it the better it get and the more you will enjoy it

taking the car out on a cold wet night will help test a lot of the electrical items and give them use to keep them moving and working, wiper, heater motor, all the lights , wiper motor and all those extra you get on a later and US car – plus test the horns

good luck
N Atkins

Thanks to all for the comments.
I will start fresh at it tonight.
I am going to start with the indicator stalk switch, it seems a little loose.

Lawrence of Kent - does to indicator and the cover "pop out"? I tried to gently wiggle it free but it seems stuck. I have never had it out; the PO lived in the San Fransisco area where it is very wet, it could be rusted to the clip but I don't want to force it out.
L Holden

I'm not saying it might not be the indicator stalk but mine has been loose for the 4 yearas I've had the car but works fine and I know from replacing one on another car 5 years ago that those can be (used to be?) another poorly made new part

if your indicator unit is like mine then in sits in a metal clip, box like clamp (item 25 on link below) that's screwed to the firewall

it sits in this very tightly so needs a bit of effort to remove

http://www.mgocspares.co.uk/acatalog/MGOC_SPARES_HORN___SWITCHES___WIRING__MIDGET__154.html
N Atkins

L Holden,
Are you asking about the indicator lamp units? I assume you are.

Depends on the type of indicator you have. Rubber or chrome bumper type. I'm guessing rubber bumper type.

However for completness. :)

Are yours glass covered or plastic covered indicators? Fronts that is.

If glass, then take out the 2 screws and remove the glass cover, and that will reveal an orange glass dome, under which the indicator bulb sits in it's holder. You might well have to use a lever to get the orange dome off. They are easily chipped, so be careful and lever all round carefully.

If it's the orange plastic type it's much easier. Take out the 2 side screws, prise of the plastic cover, (probably stuck to the rubber seal), and there is your bulb.

in both cases begin by making a little scratch in the metal of the unit and hold the earth to the freshly clean metal area.

Does this make the lamp wink(flash)?

You can do the same at the rear. Easy. Just take out the screws, and there are your bulbs.

If you can take a pic and post it that will make it clear to all and then the advice will flood in I'm sure.
Lawrence Slater

Since there are earth connections at each indicator light it seems to me unlikely to be an earth problem causing all three lights on one side to go out at the same time. And if only one light had stopped working, then the others on that side would flash faster.

That is why I believe it is a problem on the live feed part of the circuit. And that's why I suggest checking the multi-connector behind the steering wheel, which is very easy to do. And if that is not the problem, then I would agree with Bob about checking the contacts in the stalk switch.
Guy

Wise word Guy but?

Isn't the live feed to the idicator switch common to both sides? if one side indicators work it suggests to me that the supply is healthy.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Bob,
yes the live feed TO the indicator switch is common to both. But the live feed(s) FROM the switch go through the same multi-plug. A little corrosion on the relevant bullet connectors will isolate the supply to one side only.
Guy

I haven't said it is definitely the earth, only that it's the easiest thing in the world to run an earth lead and see if it makes a difference. If it doesn't, then earth problems are eliminated.

I think this because the main factor in this, is that the car stood for 2 years, prior to which there were no problems with the indicators. Time is great for creating bad electrical connections, esp earths.

But we will know soon enough.

Then the prize for remote diagnostics by guesswork, with insufficient information to go on, can be awarded, and the dunce cap for getting it wrong can also be given out. :)

Maybe I'm in with a chance at the latter. lol
Lawrence Slater

Update:

I checked/cleaned/tighted all the grounds I could. Check indicator flasher. Everything looked good but still would not blink. Finally tackled the steering column area. I took stuff apart, cleaned and reassembled. I don't know what worked, but now both indicators work. Thank all of you for your advice and encouragment.
L Holden

Great,! Glad to hear you got it fixed.

Just seen you are in Nevada. I didn't think you had bends in the roads there - or much other traffic. At least that's is how it always shown in the films!

Well done!
Guy

Good for you. :)

What no prize or dunce cap then? lol.
Lawrence Slater

Good for Bob!
Guy

:)

Staggering!

Although Guy it might well have been the connector that puts power to the common of the column switch so just maybe you deserve a little credit.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Nice to know on this solitary occassion it was NOT the condenser!
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

""it might well have been the connector that puts power to the common of the column switch""

Must have had a funny moment there cos I can't believe I said that. If power was lost to the common of the switch then neither side indicators would have worked.

What of course I meant to say was the wire taking power from the switch to the RH indicators was possibly a bad connection.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

This thread was discussed between 24/10/2011 and 29/10/2011

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