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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Engine upgrades and tuning
| Hello, Everybody can read about upgrades and tuning and what this and that person has had done or who fits what.But where can someone with very little mechanical or technical knowledge read and learn what they can do to their engine and what a certain stage head will or can do for them,and what sequence you need to do things when changing components on your engine,say for example if you change the cam do you need to do anything else to get the benefit ,personally I would like to be able to improve the handling and get a quicker car (73 RWA) but it's knowing how and what to do.So if I went to a garage or rang someone I would have an inkling of what they were talking about and why they were charging "x" amount of pounds. .I do appologise for the lack of knowledge but someone once said to me if you don't ask you will not find out. Thanks for looking. Wayne. |
| W Williams |
| The main thing you have to ask yourself is "what do I want to do with MY car?" - then see lots of other cars and what excites you about them - and take time to decide so that you don't waste money on fads and fancies. |
| rachmacb |
| Thank you for a quick reply,funny you should mention fads and fancies because since I got the car I have taken all what I call stick on goodies. Badge bar Badges Chrome wheel trims It still has the boot rack on,only because of the holes drilled in the boot lid and "2" pair of wing mirrors,again I will have to sort the extra holes drilled. What I want from the car is what I mentioned in my first post A better handling car that is quick mid range with say a maximum speed of about 75mph. Cheers Wayne. |
| W Williams |
| Sadly you will get 1000000 differing opinions on the subject of engine mods, most however will simply be hearsay and spoken by people who have never actually tested these theories. The theories I personally have spent a fortune on rolling road time to understand are as follows. Compression ratio Cam shaft These are the main 2 and are fundemaental to all other modifications. These are followed by the following, not necessarily in correct order. Head porting Carburation Exhaust. Then a good number of mods that give tiny amounts of benefit. air filters ram pipes ETC etc. These will be contraversial but we are all entitled to our opinions. And I bet I have missed something major!! :) |
| Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo |
| Wayne, Get rid of all the excess weight, make sure the engine has been properly serviced and running as well as it can (sorry Nigel). Make sure the suspension bushes are all in good condition and the tyres are good. Then learn to drive it as you can make the car go faster if you know how to. If it is still not fast enough then get Vizards book on modifying the A series engine 'Tuning the A series engine'. He will tell you everything you need to know about getting more power/torque out of the a series. If you want better handling get Daniel Stalpleton's book about modifying the midget (i've forgotten what it is called). There are books with all this in (sorry Daniel) http://www.veloce.co.uk/shop/products/productDetail.php?prod_id=V4142&prod_group=Performance%20Tuning%20&%20Modification& Dave |
| D Brown |
| As Dave says Read up so you understand what all mods do and how the basic principles work. Then you can decide what you think is most benificial for you. Keep it as std as posible and first try each mod out before you start with the next one! Some times when i drive a std 1275 midget i am reminded how much fun they are! |
| Onno Könemann |
| Wayne, Dave's almost there when he put >>make sure the engine has been properly serviced and running as well as it can (sorry Nigel)<< cheers Dave Wayne sort the ALL basics of the car first otherwise there's no point moving on from there I know it's not sexy or interesting like upgrades but a full and proper service, for the whole car, is a tune-up Other than regular servicing improving the engine can be costly I strongly advise you to keep your money for other stuff that may be needed on the car until you've regularly driven it for about 12 months A car that not been used much for at least 3 years may possibly have quite a few wrinkles that need sorting out depending on it's garaged conditions You'll gain real improvements by just the full and proper servicing and maintenance - and - getting the timing (and tappets) set up correctly getting the carbs set up correctly making sure all the cars components don't just function but work well tyres being less than 6 years old regardless of amount of tread on them actually driving the car regularly will improve it and your driving technique of it A better handling car involves more than just the engine and 75 mph is very modest I'm with Bob's ideas but you should looked at them after a while of regularly driving the car not now If you were nearer I'd take you out in my Midget that doesn't really have engine upgrades to see whether it is engine upgrades you really want or need |
| Nigel Atkins |
| Hello, Everybody can read about upgrades and tuning and what this and that person has had done or who fits what.But where can someone with very little mechanical or technical knowledge read and learn what they can do to their engine and what a certain stage head will or can do for them,and what sequence you need to do things when changing components on your engine,say for example if you change the cam do you need to do anything else to get the benefit ,personally I would like to be able to improve the handling and get a quicker car (73 RWA) but it's knowing how and what to do.So if I went to a garage or rang someone I would have an inkling of what they were talking about and why they were charging "x" amount of pounds. .I do appologise for the lack of knowledge but someone once said to me if you don't ask you will not find out. Thanks for looking. Wayne. |
| W Williams |
| The main thing you have to ask yourself is "what do I want to do with MY car?" - then see lots of other cars and what excites you about them - and take time to decide so that you don't waste money on fads and fancies. |
| rachmacb |
| Thank you for a quick reply,funny you should mention fads and fancies because since I got the car I have taken all what I call stick on goodies. Badge bar Badges Chrome wheel trims It still has the boot rack on,only because of the holes drilled in the boot lid and "2" pair of wing mirrors,again I will have to sort the extra holes drilled. What I want from the car is what I mentioned in my first post A better handling car that is quick mid range with say a maximum speed of about 75mph. Cheers Wayne. |
| W Williams |
| Sadly you will get 1000000 differing opinions on the subject of engine mods, most however will simply be hearsay and spoken by people who have never actually tested these theories. The theories I personally have spent a fortune on rolling road time to understand are as follows. Compression ratio Cam shaft These are the main 2 and are fundemaental to all other modifications. These are followed by the following, not necessarily in correct order. Head porting Carburation Exhaust. Then a good number of mods that give tiny amounts of benefit. Air filters ram pipes ETC etc. These will be contraversial but we are all entitled to our opinions. And I bet I have missed something major!! :) |
| Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo |
| Wayne, Get rid of all the excess weight, make sure the engine has been properly serviced and running as well as it can (sorry Nigel). Make sure the suspension bushes are all in good condition and the tyres are good. Then learn to drive it as you can make the car go faster if you know how to. If it is still not fast enough then get Vizards book on modifying the A series engine 'Tuning the A series engine'. He will tell you everything you need to know about getting more power/torque out of the a series. If you want better handling get Daniel Stalpleton's book about modifying the Midget (i've forgotten what it is called). There are books with all this in (sorry Daniel) http://www.veloce.co.uk/shop/products/productDetail.php?prod_id=V4142&prod_group=Performance%20Tuning%20&%20Modification& Dave |
| D Brown |
| As Dave says Read up so you understand what all mods do and how the basic principles work. Then you can decide what you think is most benificial for you. Keep it as std as posible and first try each mod out before you start with the next one! Some times when i drive a std 1275 midget i am reminded how much fun they are! |
| Onno Könemann |
| Wayne, Dave's almost there when he put >>make sure the engine has been properly serviced and running as well as it can (sorry Nigel)<< cheers Dave Wayne sort the ALL basics of the car first otherwise there's no point moving on from there I know it's not sexy or interesting like upgrades but a full and proper service, for the whole car, is a tune-up Other than regular servicing improving the engine can be costly I strongly advise you to keep your money for other stuff that may be needed on the car until you've regularly driven it for about 12 months A car that not been used much for at least 3 years may possibly have quite a few wrinkles that need sorting out depending on it's garaged conditions You'll gain real improvements by just the full and proper servicing and maintenance - and - getting the timing (and tappets) set up correctly getting the carbs set up correctly making sure all the cars components don't just function but work well tyres being less than 6 years old regardless of amount of tread on them actually driving the car regularly will improve it and your driving technique of it A better handling car involves more than just the engine and 75 mph is very modest I'm with Bob's ideas but you should looked at them after a while of regularly driving the car not now If you were nearer I'd take you out in my Midget that doesn't really have engine upgrades to see whether it is engine upgrades you really want or need |
| Nigel Atkins |
| Is there some reason that this thread has randomly decided to repeat itself?!?!??! If you're worried about your own expertise, then, there's a couple of suggestions I can make - firstly, build up on the basics - do a couple of oil changes, do the spark plugs, etc etc, sit and look at the engine and how it all fits together and, secondly, join your local club, and get someone to talk you through/hold your hand while you do things, and then you'll get the confidence etc - and then you'll be more able to face the bigger things. Vizzards' book is excellent, but does go into everything in terribly intricate detail. Daniel's book is alot shorter, but, perhaps doesn't go in to them in enough detail for someone who doesn't have a background. THAT is as far as I'm going, since last time I said anything on this board it was taken out of the context I meant it in! Nothing can beat getting your hands dirty and learning at the knees of an expert - and most of the MG clubs have someone who will be more than willing to help. Usual stuff applies though - look at how their car runs first ;) |
| rachmacb |
| My double posting is because I was trying to edit my post and somehow submitted it twice (i.e. I'm an idiot) But the thread does seem a repeat but I couldn't find the previous thread as I don't know how to use the Archives (now that is a repeat) - I did try though |
| Nigel Atkins |
| My 10 cents worth If tou only want 75 mph I'd be leaving the engine std. for now just get it on tune and concentrate on handling to get the max. amount of fun from your car Fix any basic suspension faults , fit a good set of upgraded shockies, a 3/4" front swaybar and get a set of good sticky tyres Good tyres are the best thing you can do to a Midget and the stickier the better Have fun Willy |
| William Revit |
There are books with this stuf ;)
 |
| Arie de Best |
| In a word....Balance !!!! Balance is the most import thing to consider when do modification work. There is no pont in having 500 hp engine and q stock suspension and brake system. Im my opinion....think how radical you want t go a build accordingly Id think in terms of major sections/componetns Drivetrain (engine, trans, rearend) Suspention and brakes Weight and tires Aerodynamics and body mods If you think about balance in these four sections you will be way.ahead of the game. Arie is correct ...there are good books for this anything by danial stapelton and david vizard |
| Prop |
| Thank you everybody for yout thoughts and recommendations ,I started today with a visit to my fairly local MG workshop Mike Entwistles in Radcliffe. He Put the car on his Crypton tuner and found half a dozen things wrong,and what a difference that made plus he had plenty of time for my inquisitive mind and helped me understand what he was doing. And all at a very good price. Cheers Wayne. |
| W Williams |
| Good news Wayne Did he do the tappets and timing? And for the sake of other new owners learning what things did he find wrong? |
| Nigel Atkins |
| Hello again, Tappets and timing are being done on my next visit as I went on short notice. Things that were wrong were - Rusty,stiff unlubricated distributor internal (Nigel) Points gap way out Loose rivet on "Brand new rota arm" Brand new plug lead arcing,very poor quality. Butterfly not working in one of carburettors Stiff throttle linkage Carburettors badly set up Cheers Wayne. |
| W Williams |
| All stuff that gets checked or done with a full and proper service ignition lead and rotor arm come under faulty new parts remember >>dissy cap, rotor arm and leads (buy good quality ones) - http://www.distributordoctor.com/rotor_arms.html<< the car will be even better after tappets and timing is set Now go thorough the rest of the servicing on the rest of the car - the engine really is the least important thing although most put it first I don't care who criticises me for my next statement - that stuff was servicing, I'm certain other stuff on the car will need fully and properly servicing with the car doing less than 400 miles in the last 3 years - forget your upgrades for now get the car running well and safely then drive it and enjoy it for a good while before considering what you want to improve, you've not even complete the engine servicing and I bet the car goes much better, when everthing is done you'll probably have a 90 mph never mind 75 mph car |
| Nigel Atkins |
| Agree with Nigel A std 1275 spridget in good nic is a fun good handeling 90 mph car After all my fideling I've only ended up with a very good handeling 105+? mph car. Not disappointed but almost equal fun can be had in a std midget |
| Onno Könemann |
| Hi Onno If standard rwp = 45 then you would only need 72 rwp to do 105, maybe your theoretical top speed is higher than you realise. Don't forget how much quicker you get to 90 and the bigger grin in doing so :) 82 rwp = 110 mph all things being equal. Peter |
| P Burgess |
| Good morning everyone, I have just been out in my newly Cryptoned car for a couple of hours around the Cheshire lanes,what a difference,now the thread should and will change to "Suspension only" improvements for a road going Midget. Cheers Wayne. |
| W Williams |
| Wayne - seeing as how much you're enjoying your engine running properly, likely you will be back to this thread topic for more...! Meanwhile, enjoy the best spring weather we've had for ages. A |
| Anthony Cutler |
| Peter That is why i put the ? Behind it At 105 the BMW i was chasing backed off and my front was feeling a bit light. But i had enough throtle and rpm left |
| Onno Könemann |
| I agree with Onno here. I have spent a fortune making my Midget special. It goes well enough, handles brilliantly but somehow I think it has lost some of that old car charm. I'm not upset as I have achieved what I set out to do. Had it set up on a rolling road the other day 80bhp, not bad. But my diesel Honda CRV is probably faster! The whole point is the fun factor, roof off in this weather and you don't need to go fast to enjoy your car. In any case the speed limits and dawdling traffic slows you down all the time. Just get it all set up as it should be, drive it lots and have a good time is my advice........... Mind you there is a lot of fun to be had surprising people in modern cars when you outrun them or out corner them! |
| John Ruderman |
| Hi Onno I reckon they give up racing when they see our olde worlde cars carrering all over the place at such high speeds on the Queen's Public Highway or wherever :) Peter |
| P Burgess |
| John You may have understood me wrong. My midget has not lost any of it's charm. But you can have almost as much fun with a well set up std midget. Peter you may have a point there ;) |
| Onno Könemann |
This thread was discussed between 17/04/2011 and 19/04/2011
MG Midget and Sprite Technical index
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