MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Essex/Cologne V4 or V6....

These engines are a little on the heavy side, but they are quite short, has anyone got any thoughts on their use in the midget? Id be interested to sell my VVC K and put a V6 in or even a V4...just for the fun of it!
Rob McGeown

Rob, I think the V6 would be the best fit as it's a 60 degree V and a bit narrower than the V4. I'm not sure if the Ford V6 we got here in the US back in the 70s was the same, I think it was, but if it is I think it would fit pretty well. You'd have to modify the bonnet a bit for clearance for the carb or injection much like I had to do with my GM V6 installation. I can say that the additional torque from the 2.8 V6 makes the Midget a very versitile car. Perhaps not as "quick" feeling as the K series, but great on the road as you don't have to stir the gearbox as much and it will pull higher rear gears to maximize fuel economy.
Bill Young

I had 2 Scimitars with 3.0 V6 and o/d. Engine and transmission massively heavy. The 172 lb-ft of torque is nice, but your going to have to have something special in the axle and fsusp to handle it. Only 138 bhp in std form.

Cologne 2.8 V6 a bit lighter IIRC but less torque.

Why not go for a modern petrol turbo?

A
Anthony Cutler

Anyone looked into a Zetec? Straightforward 180 - 220 bhp :) We know the Type 9 fits okay.
Jordan Gibson

Cue Darren and Lee....


and maybe BobT!
Toby Anscombe

Rob,

I don't think Bills comment on the V6 being narrower than the V4 holds for either the Essex V4 or of the Cologne V4 as IIRC both are 60 degree V angle. Quite common when the V4 and V6 variant of an engine is intended to go down the same production line. IIRC the Cologne V4 is supposed to be a far better engine than the Essex V4. The Cologne V4 being used in the Taunus and some Saabs.
David Billington

Actually come to think of it there was a Zetec Frog on the Mike Authers stand at Spridget 50 (IOW bodywork too!).
Jordan Gibson

Dare I say it but has anyone looked into a modern diesel engine? Some of the VAG engines are tuneable to 200bhp, the engine in my rover 75 can be taken to 170bhp quite easily. MPG would be good the only downside is the weight and I'm not sure if one would fit!
Ed Brown

I wish i had looked at all these options before i bought my VVC K.
Rob McGeown

It might be worth looking at http://www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk/ I know the owner well and I know that he has done a number of Zetec conversions on Moggies.I am led to believe he has a good supply of new Zetec engines so it may be worth having a chat. Has anyone tried a Honda vtec lump? I imagine weight is the biggest problem with most conversions, which is why the K-series is so good of cause!

Carl
C Bintcliffe

The V4 never had a good reputation for tuning so it's be hard to think of a good reason for fitting one.

The Essex is considered to be a far more tunable engine than the Cologne. I forget which engine has Weslake cylinder heads available for it.

I've seen a Ford V6 in a Frogeye many years ago - it was for sale...

I think you might find understeer a problem that you couldn't resolve.
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

IIRC Brian Wheeler showed up at the AH club Wroughton autotest, run by the late John Mead, with a frogeye fitted with a Dolomite sprint engine. That's a lump and required a large bonnet bulge, not particularly in keeping with the frogeye bonnet IMO.
David Billington

A B----y heavy lump too David

but a B good engine for "grunt per quid"

The Dolly can come with a rather nice overdrive engine too





(wanders off thinking)

Bill

The Ford V4 was a disaster and I wouldn't even consider it, the V6 is better but in my experience running a Capri 3.0Ltr race car for someone a few years ago, still not a good option.

I have been offered a Dolly Sprint recently, it would restore or break...

Overdrive engine Bill... that's a new on on me.. lol

Mark.
Mark T. Boldry

In the spirit of free thinking and brainstorming ideas I'm not going to knock you making the suggestion BUT
the essex is around 1.5 to 2x times the weight of an A series. It was designed to be a common block casting with a diesel version (that never made it to production)...so basically it's a truck engine. Add the increase in g/box weight and you would end up with a pig of a car....verging on dangerous, since there are some things you can't 'drive accordingly' to account for. Midgets are about agility and response. Capris are quite a bit bigger, yet in their day I regarded a decent pinto in a Mk1 as best compromise when costs are considered against even a 2.8 (2.8=a triumph of development over design)...and the pinto is 'a bit of an anchor' in modern terms... infact isn't the Rover v8 significantly lighter?

At least you'd have a 380lb (ish?) lump of cast iron between you an the accident though.

Stick with the K and keep the questions coming!
robnrrugby

new on me too Mark

I blame this rogue keyboard

takes over sometimes



(Never noticed?)

Bill

Hi Rob what about fitting 2.5 v6 vauxhall alloy engine
have seen one fitted to a clubman mini which is runnning on 6 suzuki 600 gsxr throttle body's
gary
g knowles

Thinking back, I seem to recall reading in one of my MG histories that BMC briefly developed a V4 once upon a time, only to drop it in favor of the B-series or something else.

We never got the Ford V4 here in the states, as far as I know.

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

Who needs a V4 if you can have a V8?
The only thing that sounds sweeter then a V8 is a V12.
Fitting a V12... now theres a challenge!

Wasnt their a mgb V12 in the mgcc august-magazine?
Arie de Best

Hi Gryf

Correct - V4 considered for MGB. But it was a bit of a thumper. And although a very narrow V (and reasonably short), was still too wide for the transverse applications - so not suitable for the average Austin/Morris. The engine boring machines were also only good for vertical boring, and so with no volume potential, it was dropped.

Probably for the best!

A
Anthony Cutler

Just saw an old Classic and Sports Car with an article on a TVR with the Essex V6 in 3.0 form. They had good things to say about the car's performance and did mention that although the shift lever didn't fall "at hand" it wasn't much of a problem as the torque more than made up for that as you didn't have to stir the gears as much. They rated it at 142hp and 172 foot pounds of torque. Coupled to a type 9 transmission and it should be a pretty nice package. Don't know about the weight though.
Bill Young

Gary Knowles. There is a superb engineer here in York who has built some superb and competitive cars. One I recall was his Avon... A Vauhall Nova with a 16 valve 'Red Top' Astra engine in the back.... Mid engined rear wheel drive, it was awsome! Another he did was a Chevette with the aformentioned 3.0Ltr V6 Quad Cam engine, just superb. His latest 'Toy' is a Porsche Boxter Stage Rally Car, he built a while ago and has used ever since.
I think the V6 idea would be good.

I always wondered about putting either a Lotus Twin Cam or Ford BDA into a Spridget, but I guess that idea is old fashioned these days.

How about the Honda S2000 engine with 6 speed box...?

Mark.
Mark T. Boldry

How about the 800cc Honda V4 from the VFR 800. Very light, smooth and about one hundred horses in standard tune. Not sure about the torque though.
B Slater

All-alloy Alfa Romeo V6 engine?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_V6_engine
Jonathan Severn

Jonathan -

Don't the Italians make some beautiful engines? That Alfa one, and the current Maserati V-8, are just works of art.

It always bugs me, as a car guy, to see an engine covered up with a plastic panel, as is the current trend. Show me the hardware!

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

I like your thinking Jonathan, Now we just need to know the weights of some of the other engines we know about. I think the Fiat twin cam has been fitted to Midgets with some success

Carl
C Bintcliffe

1700 Cologne V4 is super motor, different block than 1500, heavy, but good for 180hp Din with Saab twin port heads. I have one in my Sonett, however I will keep the A series in my Frog. The V4 was still being produced in the USA by Ford as an industrial motor until recently, and is a source of spares for Saab and Matra MS530. The only weakness in the V4 was the fibre balance gear which can be replaced with a steel one, Jack Laurence in USA does wonders with them.
alicat2

This thread was discussed between 02/10/2008 and 04/10/2008

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.