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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Facet Pump Conversion

Hi all
I am getting rid of my mechanical pump on my marina engine and swapping it for the small cube type facet pump. Does anybody have any pictures of there installation, pipe work routing etc and the pump location.

Thanks Ian
I Pickering

Ian

I did a facet ...the thing to remember is the pump must sit below bottom of the tank, it must be angled ...fuel in from the top to the bottom

I used some strap metal for lack of better word... its 1/8 inch steel plate about 2 inches wide and 8 long, and it has holes drilled ever 1/4 inch...I used it as a hanger off the wheel well

The bad news... these things run constantly,and make a racket of noise

But the installation is pretty straight forward

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Btw...

You also want a low pressure pump .. I think with SU around 1.5 psi or else the pressure will over shoot the needle jets and the car wont run...so im guessing anything over 3 psi and you will need a regulator as well

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I have a silver top cylindical pump. Its mounted in the engine bay on two rubber bobbins on the nearside inner wing in the vertical position. Its easy to break the fuel supply here and to run the power lead from the ignition side of the fuse block. It supplies standard 1.25 SU's without any need for a restrictor. its been fine for over 20 years!
Bob Beaumont

I use a small Facet pump, in the boot, to supply a swirl-pot for my high-pressure EFI pump. I think it was ~the cheapest in the range. Here is a pic... looks more complicated than LP pump installation for carbs...

The EFI pump etc was already in the boot, so the (very light) LP pump was a bit of an add-on... in fact it's held in place by the pipes, as I didn't bother mounting it 'properly'

Anthony


Anthony Cutler

Very interesting anthony,

Im surprised you can operate EFI with just regular hose clamps on the fuel hoses...any idea on the psi thats being applied

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

The pressure relief valve at the end of the fuel rail is 3bar, so, in today's terms, relatively low-pressure injection - into the port runners.

Latest engines, which inject directly into the combustion chamber, can use 1000+bar - quite considerable pressures, not from an electric pump, but normally from very finely machined individual mechanical pumps driven off the camshaft (e.g. my Z4C 3.0Si; this engine doesn't have a throttle (butterfly) - it uses cam timing and lift to control air into engine).

So, for me, no concern for jubilee clips on the EFi lines...

Anthony
Anthony Cutler

This is the pump I have got. Prop it says in the instructions that it must be no higher than 12" from the bottom of the tank. Does anybody else use this type of pump.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FACET-ELECTRIC-FUEL-PUMP-ULTRA-LOW-4PSI-NO-REGULATOR-REQUIRED-4-CLASSIC-CARS-EO-/400556368233?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AMG%7CModel%3Amidget&hash=item5d43052169

Thanks Ian
I Pickering

Ian's looks alot like Ants LP-pump on the photo.
Arie de Best

I've got a silver top mounted in the boot and it seems to work ok.
Tim
T Dafforn

Got one of the ones shown on eBay in my Midget. I bought the car with one of these in place of the original SU, mounted on two rubber bobbins on the back of the heel board not far from where the SU pump was mounted. It's a 1973 midget and picks up the original fuel lines and power. You only need to provide a ground. The Facet died in the recent heatwave, much to my surprise as it had worked perfectly for the 3 months since I bought the car. I replaced it with the same model Facet pump and so far it has been ok. I took the original apart and the circuit board had burnt out. The Facet website says they are fitted with safety fuses but they are not replaceable. A bit strange in my opinion, it seems to be more for protecting the company than the customer. Anyway, it works ok. It does run all the time but you can only hear it pulsing until the float chambers are full then it gets quiet even though it is still going.
MG Moneypit

I installed one of the metal cube type Facets in the spring. It's in roughly the same place as the original SU but shifted over slightly to keep it and the hose away from the telescopic damper. Mounted on rubber bobbins it purrs away quietly most of the time, it would probably be quite noisy if mounted rigidly. I needed the bobbins for insulation as the pumps are negative earth and my electrics are still positive earth.
The only problem I've had was when the fuel gauge was telling fibs and the tank was really almost empty resultiing in an air lock in the pump. Putting a gallon of fuel in the tank didn't cure it, though a full tank might have done so. I finally sorted it by sucking fuel through the pump to prime it. Glad I had some clear PVC tube with me so I managed to avoid getting a mouthful of unleaded!
Colin Mee

-****This is the pump I have got. Prop it says in the instructions that it must be no higher than 12" from the bottom of the tank. Does anybody else use this type of pump.****

That goes hand in hand with the pump I have... if your at the 12 inch mark, thats where it will stop pulling fuel, id try to make it around 3 inches from the bottom....12 inches from the bottom of the tank is alot of fuel.

I forgot to mention ... there are pusher pumps and puller pumps....what we have is a pusher

But yes it should just hook up to the su connections

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Here is a picture of my Facet pump, fitted as a back up to the SU. Works a treat, and the engine will run with either in use.

Dave


Dave Barrow

Not bad dave,

Do you have the 2 pumps on a transfering switch, or do they both run at the same time

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I use a facet in my TR4 - mounted horizontally below the tank, it works fine but does drum all the time,unlike the occasional tick of the SU in my midget.

I had a cube type previously but ended up damaging it when I screwed the pre filter in, it actually took up more space than the cylinder type as well due to its length with a connection at either end

Huco do a low pressure pump that I may try next - or even a solid state SU

Fitting an inertia switch is a good move



S G Macfarlane

Dont do the electronic SU pump... apperantly they will blow on a whim, w/o ever dropping to its knees.

check with david deboiges ??? He rebuilds these to electronic and last forever

Just google SU fuel pump rebuilding and some variations with his name and it will come up

Prop and the Blackhole Midget


Prop
The pumps are connected to a two way switch, forward for the normal SU, or backwards for the Facet. I normally just run on the SU, and leave the Facet for emergencies, but the engine will run on either. I also give the Facet a go when I first start up, to check it still works.
I don't think having them both running at the same time would be a very good idea.

Dave
Dave Barrow

Job done. Gone from this.


I Pickering

Another one.


I Pickering

One more.


I Pickering

To This. Many thanks for all the advice given.


I Pickering

another.


I Pickering

Last one


I Pickering

Ian

I read that these pumps are noisy, can you hear it when the engine is running?

As you had mechanical before no way to compare with the std su pump I suppose.

Thanks
Shaun
Shaun

Shaun it is noisy but you cant hear it with the engine running. I also mounted it on some anti vibration mounts. Been out for a 50 mile run today and it seems to perform fine.
Thanks Ian.
I Pickering

Shaun,
those can be noisy little b*ggers even when fitted on the rubber bobbins

rather than spend extra on something with a SU label I installed an electronic Q&H more or less as soon as I got my Midget 6 years ago, I expect the pump to go on for many more years too

they've increased in price now but are still a lot cheaper than a SU label pump, you don't need a regulator with them and they will provide enough fuel for even a reasonably tuned Spridget

12v ELECTRIC METAL BODIED FUEL PUMP, MADE BY QUINTON HAZELL (QFP171E)

This pump delivers 9 gallons per hour and has a 2.5 - 3 PSI delivery pressure. It is equivalent to O.E. part number AUF214 and is an underbody fitment pump. The Pump is Suitable For The Following Vehicles -

MG Midget 1098cc Mk.2 1964-1966

MG Midget 1275cc Mk.3 1966-1974

Suitable for negative and positive earth vehicles

http://www.classicparts4cars.co.uk/mg-midget-electronic-fuel-pump---qh-qfp171e--auf214-133-p.asp
Nigel Atkins

Nigel

Your recommended replacement for the SU was a good one BUT I just found out that Quinton Hazell went bust (in administration) in February 2013!! My part supplier tells me that no QH parts including pumps are currently available and likely to be so for the foreseeable future as all the QH plants have been closed or sold off!

I don't know where the loss of QH leaves classic car owners - are there plenty of other suppliers around?
Chris H (1970 Midget 1275)

Hi Chris,

I'd say get it while you can

I know about QH as by coincidence I was trying to use their on-line catalogue at the time they were going under and thought it was just the usual computer/web site gremlins and then Lawrence reported on the true events the next day (or so?)

not long ago I saw a 'back in-stock' notice for these (at the 25%+ higher price than I paid 6 years ago so yes the loss of Q&H is noticeable with this)

AFAIK that link is current - when I added it to the 'cart', just now, it didn't say it was out of stock and wanted my delivery arrangements

although I do make many mistakes and could have with this I wouldn't knowingly put up a link to something that is just advertised and not available as that really annoys me

so get them while you can

a bigger supplier like Q&H will have odd bits of stock turn up here and there for a long time after they dissapear
Nigel Atkins

I've gone the Facet cube route instead.
Chris H (1970 Midget 1275)

This thread was discussed between 28/08/2013 and 04/09/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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