MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Fitting rear brake shoes - the correct way

I had a few problems working out how to fit the rear brake shoes on my MKIII midget. My good friends on the BBS helped me out with a diagram and some pics.

So into the archives for anyone else that needs a hand.


Greg H

...


Greg H

RHS


Greg H

RHS...


Greg H

Well done Greg, thanks. Something I've never been too sure of.
BTW on your RHS pic where the red arrow is pointing, I'd always had a sneaking suspicion that the end of the return spring was somehow meant to go through the hole in the tongue above it but I can't see how ?

Malc
M J Chapman

Darn the fact that this website, awesome as it is, has such a dirt poor search function, making it very hard to find what you are looking for, and has no way to store articles with this kind of know how, so new folks can easily find it.

On top of that, on the subject of rear brakes, both the Haynes and the Bentley manuals are lacking and unclear (photo of one side, text describes the other side, lack of illustration, that sort of thing).

Greg, thanks for posting your work, because the more times that someone posts here with this information, the more likely the next person will be able to find it when they try looking!

Also, here is a link to a site which has the best illustration I've ever seen (that's bragging, 'cuz I helped):
http://www.spridgetguru.com/TA0045.html



Norm "them's the brakes" Kerr

Norm Kerr

Hi Norm,

I'm not convinced about the top spring against the h/brake lever in that fashion, in the picture from the link you gave.

I've never seen it before, and have tried all sorts before. It works best as in the previous pictures, and gets anti-rattle from the action of the spring pressing from underneath.

In that latest picture, the spring would be gradually bent by the action of the hand brake lever.

Surely, the springs main function is to return/keep the shoes pressed into the brake cylinder, it's secondary function is to return the h/brake lever, and thirdly as an anti rattle.


Lawrence Slater

Norm,

I also find the search function difficult to use. So I copy any potentially useful information from the various threads into a table within a Word document. That way I can group all related info [such as brakes, clutch etc] together to aid finding in the future. I usually include the originators details and photos where available. Additionally, I save a copy of the photo in my Photo / Midget / Tech folder as trying to insert a photo from the Word table to the thread seems virtually impossible.

Might seem overally complicated etc but it works for me.

HTH
Doug Plumb

Malcolm, I too thought the spring end hooked through the hole in the handbrake arm, and I'd originally done it this way. To do this, and get enough movement in the arm so that I could hook it through I had to have the shoes on back to front with the handbrake arm going through the larger hole. The problem with this is the brake shoe linings end up in the wrong position i.e. not set back on the leading edge. This was pointed out to me and so I swapped the linings so they were on the correct way.

That first diagram on here was posted by someone else. It originally came from a very reputable Spridget workshop (Gillspeed) and so I’m quite confident in its accuracy,

http://www.spriteparts.com.au/tech/gillspeed_files/12.pdf

I had driven my car for a few years with the shoes on back to front and the spring hooked through the handbrake arm, and they worked just fine. The big benefit of doing it the correct way is that it’s so much easier to install them.

At the end of the day I don’t think it really matters how the spring end goes, because all it really has to do is apply enough pressure to the lining to retract it. The fact that people have been doing it several ways with no noticeable problems seems to support this.

The most critical thing for good brakes is keeping the linings adjusted.
Greg H

Greg did the spring foul the rivet head on the lever mechanism? you could probably see wear marks if it did. Mine did both sides so I countersunk the rivets (made new rivets with countersunk heads) countersunk the bracket and rivetted the whole thing back together. (really quite rivetting actually)
Result no fouling, better action and the spring will not be damaged.
I also agree with Lawrence the spring definitely goes underneath, I'm sorry Norm IMHO the diagram isn't correct, spring wrong and the lever is not depicted correctly i.e. it shows it seemingly as a one piece object not offsett and rivetted together as in real life.
Rod
R W Bowers

you know what? you guys are right!

I had not noticed that part of the illustration was changed, and I agree with you, it goes below. I'll let him know!


thanks,
Norm

Norm Kerr

Anytime Mate
I agree with you about the clunky search function, I think I posted along these lines some time ago, would've saved some time that's for sure.
Cheers All
PS my back brakes are superb, handbrake will lock the wheels so easily one has to be careful.
R W Bowers

This is very helpful thanks Greg. I've saved your image (and printed a hard copy for use when sat in front of the brakes!)
Do you know if installing the shoes the wrong way round contributes adversely to handbrake performance (as in long travel before biting (as well as worn adjusters))?

Jeremy
Jeremy 3

Rod, I didn't see any rubbing on mine but with the spring end through the eye, the spring is probably rotated over a bit more and so it may be further away from the linkage than if correctly fitted.

Jeremy, I don't think it would make a difference, although the lining would not be present between the handbrake linkage and wheel cylinder so it may need to go a bit further out to work.
Greg H

so where's David Smith asking what the question is and the other mickey takers ??
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Greg,
It was asked more in hope than expectation!
I'll check the positioning is correct and then the other suspects.
Jeremy
Jeremy 3

I spent a chunk of this afternoon fumbling with rear brake shoes and, although they're finally in place, I took to the archive to see if I could find a recommended procedure for fitting them, hence reviving this thread, which has confirmed that I need to revisit thing tomorrow as the springs aren't quite right.

However, this thread got me thinking as there are differing views on the orientation of the shoes: Bare end first or lined end first?

Studying the diagram in the first post, however, made me think that perhaps there should be one of each as rear brakes have one leading and one trailing shoe so that there is some servo effect when reversing. This makes me think that the diagram is wrong and both of the bare ends should be at the bottom. The action of the pistons pushes the tops of the shoes outwards as they pivot on the adjusters at the bottom. Because of the pivoting action, the last section of the lining at the bottom will never come into contact with the drum and would be redundant, hence the bare metal. I've tried to represent this by annotating the original diagram.

Any thoughts?



C Mee

The diagram is right. Cheaper to make the shoes the same possibly?

And anyway, given how they weaŕ, that trailing section may not immediately make contact on new shoes, but as the linings wear, it definitely does. Look at worn linings. And that's also why on single leading edge, you should keep them adjusted correctly.

anamnesis

anam,
did you get my email?
Nigel Atkins

See if below is correct.



Nigel Atkins

The long edge without lining should be the 'leading edge' In other words if you think about a point on the drum as the wheel rotates in the normal forwards direction, that point needs to meet that long edge first, for both shoes.

I can see where your logic goes about leverage around the fixed point end of the shoe, but as the shoes are free to slide on the pivot and self centre to the drum, it doesn't actually work like that.

The 'servo effect' relies on the leading edge grabbing on the drum first and the drum then drags this around (micoscopical amount) which ads leverage outwards and increases the pressure between the drum and the lining. This leading edge has the longer unlined section which allows it to tilt outwards slightly. This servo effect is pretty powerful, to the point that it can cause brakes to snatch on so it sometimes has to be made less severe by putting a slight bevel on the front edge of the lining.
GuyW

Does that confirm my leading and trailing shoes in my diagram?
Nigel Atkins

Yes, and yes Nigel. I replied to both you and L1.
anamnesis

Thank you, and thank you, and that's L2.
Nigel Atkins

Yes Nigel.
Have you been OK? You seemed to disappear for a while. Maybe you have beeb somewhere exotic?
GuyW

Thanks for the comments, and especially Guy for taking the time to provide such a clear and detailed explanation.

I guess my post just goes to show that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing - but the BBS provides a wealth of knowledge to help plug some of the gaps.

Cheers, and Happy New Year.

Colin
C Mee

L's bells Nigel. You've got my number. 😅

But did you get my reply, which I sent again?
anamnesis

Hi Guy,
I've been fine thank you, I've not been away, not even at HM's pleasure. I have been posting occasional, er, posts here and there but not much, my extensive knowledge of all things mechanical and engineering and vast library of stock replies, imagines and attachments hasn't been required much, with the exception of that straw manipulation tutorial.
Nigel Atkins

O/T

Anan,
sorry, I got the second email first not realising there was a previous email as it was stuck in the online BT spam folder which I'd yet to look at today. Why it stopped your first email but not your second is a BT mystery.

Since BT dropped the Yahoo bit the online spam folder has daily collections of spam and yet other spam gets through to Outlook. Whereas when it was with BTYahoo the online folder was always empty and it was rare it even let one spam email through to Outlook.
Nigel Atkins

Okidoki.

As you love it so much Nigel. Here's some more. 😁

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcY3W5WgNU


anamnesis

This thread was discussed between 01/02/2013 and 09/01/2022

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.