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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Flexi brake and clutch hoses

Chaps

A potential winter job for when the snow lies 4 feet thick is to replace brake and clutch lines with braided flexis - Other things being equal, is this a job worth doing? Done similar on motorcycles, some improvement in feel was obtained. I note MGOC has kits....


In addition, pretty certain I read somewhere of replacing the clutch master cylinder/reservoir unit with a more "modern" version. Is this too worth doing? Gears change fine at present, but something just that wee bit more positive would be good.

Obliged as always

Mark
Mark O

Mark,
I use braided brake hoses. They do make the brakes feel a good deal firmer and I think are well worth it. Never tried the clutch hose though as I think it is less critical.
Guy W

no; IMO a complete waste of time and money unless you just want bling.
If you need to replace the clutch m/cyl you will find original pattern ones are unobtainable and what's supplied is a more modern variant with a plastic reservoir. NOS sometmes come up on ebay, and of course rebuild kits are available for the original cyls.
If you want something to do, a remote bleed for the clutch slave cyl is a useful mod.
David Smith

Mark, apologies I see you have a type 9 fitted so comments re clutch probably irrelevant...
David Smith

Guy, have you replaced just the flexis with braided? Mark seems to be suggesting replacing the whole caboodle end-to-end.
David Smith

David, No I just do the brake flexis. I didn't interpret Mark's message as planning to do the full lengths when I first read it. That would seem to be excessive as there is no "give" in the solid sections anyway.

But I am surprised you think it a waste of time/bling. (unless you were meaning doing the full lengths) I certainly found that braided flexi hoses sharpened up the feel of the brakes, which I otherwise always contend that are pretty good for a light car when properly set up.
Guy W

Chaps

To clarify - Indeed to replace those bits with braided that are currently flexible. Agree that replacing hard pipe with flexis would be somewhat superfluous.

David - Yes, you read my mind! Do you have any further details of the clutch slave bleed mod? It operates fine enough at present, but perhaps a little more bleeding would not go amiss.

Cheers

Mark
Mark O

here's something to catch your breath - from a motorbike supplier so that might make you feel fuzzy at first

http://www.venhill.co.uk/Hoses_&_Cables_-_Car/MG/MG-002_MG_midget_MK2_to_MK5_BRAKE_3_LINES.html

http://www.venhill.co.uk/Hoses_&_Cables_-_Car/MG/MG-006_MG_MGB_-_MIDGET_1275_CLUTCH_1_LINE.html
Nigel Atkins

Simple solution for a remote clutch bleed is to use a single rear brake flexi hose. The thread is correct for connecting to the standard Spridget external slave cylinder, with a simple bracket made to fasten the other end to the top of the bellhousing where its easy to reach from under the bonnet.
Guy W

Yes, by 'lines' I thought you meant the pipes as well as the hoses. Just replacing the flexis with braided is worthwhile.
Re remote bleed, surely the Type 9 uses a different slave cyl?
David Smith

When I first fitted my T9 I used a normal rib case slave. Later I made an adapter to take a concentric slave. Both benefit from a remote bleeder.
Guy W

Thanks Guy - very useful- Not certain of whether slave is OE, but for sure it is a pain in the rear to get at.
Mark O

Braided hoses certainly made my brake pedal feel much firmer compared to quite tired normal rubber flexibles.

Fitting the new type of reservoirs has allowed me to fit low fluid levels warning lights as the caps are the normal large size, instead of the silly wee original caps, which can be replaced with caps with built-in floats and wiring.
No substitute for regular level checks, but on a single line brake system, it is an extra level of security.
JB Anderson

Mark,

The snow is a coming tomorrow! WoooooooOOOOoooooOOOOoooo! (spooky noises!)

See you all in March when we finally thaw out! ha ha

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

Ive got the braided lines....and im a fan

Are they as great as buttered nipples on a collage lesbian...

Probably not.

I think if you have wornout rubber flex lines and replace with rubber ...im sure the brakes would also firm up

Beyound the bling... they last forever, and can hold alot more pressure then the rubber flex

Its really a matter of personal choice if your selling the car in a year, and there is nothing special abiut the car,then yes just the rubber

If your keeping the car for the next 20 years, then id do the SS braided....


I doulbt there is that much more measurable proformance benifit between the 2

As for me, I got the braided, love em, and wont go back to rubber....but then agian, im not so humble that id lie about not loving bling

Prop

Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Performance advantage is usually a subjective judgement made after replacing knackered rubber ones, but replacement of old rubber is always good, it can balloon, break down and block the lines and ultimately burst. They should be done almost as a service item!
Allan Reeling

I disagree completely with Prop's last statement. they do NOT last forever... they last marginally longer than a normal hose. They still have a rubber core which is still in constant contact with brake fluid....

granted they don't perish from the outstide - but this is not normally their cause of failure... they perish on the inside and fill up your calipers with bits of black rubber. See photo attached.

There is one major downside of a braided hose. That is, you can't tell when its deteriorated, because you cant see it deteriorating. This is a problem if you've bought a car with them fitted and not so much if you have fitted them yourself. I would change them every 6 years as a matter of course.

Having said all that. I do have them, as they look pretty. But I know when I put them on and I know when they are likely to need changing.




C L Carter

I thought the last time we discussed braided steel hoses we established that most if not all braided steel hydraulic hose doesn't have any rubber in it?
Daniel Stapleton

have you ever cut one in half?

If there is no rubber in it then how does it hold hydraulic pressure?
C L Carter

I thought they were a hard nylon plastic on the inside?
John Payne

Like this.


John Payne

Christian,
the (later?) 1500s had red(?) plastic tubing coming off the clutch master cylinder didn't they
Nigel Atkins

Clutch is red nylon yes.... it goes hard and brittle btw

We are talking brakes though
C L Carter

it was an example to answer >>If there is no rubber in it then how does it hold hydraulic pressure?<<

I've asked Venhill about the life expectancy of their Teflon brake hoses and when I get time I'll try the same with Goodridge
Nigel Atkins

I wouldn't worry about the teflon "Corroding" so to speak but what about fatigue fractures?
R W Bowers

I think life expectancy covers that Rod

I emailed Venhill and got an 'out-of-office' reply but nothing since

I also emailed Goodridge at Silverstone but no reply yet
Nigel Atkins

Oh, I see - well the nylon won't deteriorate as quick as the rubber, but it will harden - which means when you fatigue it back and forth everytime you turn your wheel, it could develop a fatigue crack easily.





C L Carter

a reply from Goodridge

note: I told them my car was road use only

'Hi Nigel

The hoses actually have a PTFE liner, they don't need to be changed at all due to time. All we do recommend is that you change your brake fluid every 2-3 years as normal.

You only need to change the hoses if they are visibly leaking or damaged. If that ever happens then please contact us and we may be able to arrange replacements based on how they were damaged.

Many Thanks

Luke'

to me that makes these products great valve and fit 'n' forget (allowing for the normal service visual checks and fluid changes)

and great customer service and belief in their products
Nigel Atkins

My jury is still out on this but I'm sure they are better than rubber. I find "Lukes" comment about replacement interesting Cheers All
R W Bowers

I think it's good that a manufacturer backs their product

obviously they have to allow for people who abuse the product

and then totally lie about it even normally usually very honest people, they don't want to admit and/or pay for their mistakes

ETA: I can give you Luke's (no speech marks) email address if you want to follow this up





or a link to The Daily Fail if you prefer :)
Nigel Atkins

When I rebuilt my suspension the second time, the Goodrich braided SS hoses on my car, which were about 10 years old, maybe 15 by that time, were noticeably stiffer in bending than the new ones I replaced them with.

While I am sure Goodrich is speaking truth when they say their hoses are very long lasting, as PTFE is a very resilient material, it still seems prudent to replace all resin and rubber components in the braking system after some reasonable passing of time, like 10 or 20 years, just in case the polymer bonds did become affected by the elements.

One thing for sure: the brake pedal did become more solid after making the switch from rubber to braided SS hoses (the rubber hoses were nearly brand new, and only used for about 2 years when I switched to SS, so they weren't worn out when making that comparison).

As a result of the above experience, my vote would be with the folks who have recommended to OP: use Goodrich braided SS hoses, and rebuild your existing master and slave cylinders, no need to adopt "new technology" for the masters.

Norm

Norm Kerr

personally I feel the older the parts are the more regular and thorough your inspections should be

same as with parts replacements on regular services the part may still be working but probably not at its best so you are replacing it BEFORE it fails, prevention at a convenient point not later cure at possibly a very inconvenient point

I would looking to replace them at around 10-15 years based on what Norm has put for the very important function they have they are not expensive especially based on their longevity
Nigel Atkins

I'm one of the 'I thought they lasted forever' crowd but to be honest having read this thread I think I'm changing to the 'Give them a good check every year and replace at perhaps 10 years' crowd.

I'm not basing that on any hard facts or anything logical, just on the fact that with single line brakes you are better safe than sorry. Have you felt how quick that pedal goes down when you slightly open one bleed nipple?!
john payne

This thread was discussed between 18/11/2013 and 06/12/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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