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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Frogeye Wheels

My Frog-in-a-basket car came with a set of 14" steel wheels fitted with brand new tyres. But at 14" I presume these are not correct for the wee beastie so I am on the look out for something more appropriate.

I am not keen on Minilite-type alloys as I think they just look too modern and have been trying to identify the correct original steel wheels. Some photos show cars fitted with wheels with a circle of small round holes, some have slots and some have no holes at all. I think the round holes are correct for the early cars, but maybe they changed at some stage. Mine is registered as a 1960 car.

Can anyone advise, give pros and cons and possible sources?
GuyW

Guy

The MKI & MkII Sprite and MkI midget has 13 Inch steel wheels with the small circile of round holes you describe (4 inch rim width if I remember). IIRC from Terry Horler's book these then changed about 1963 for the MkIII Sprite/MkII Midget to a stronger steel wheel design with longer slots in the wheels - these wheels then were replaced in the 1970s for the Rostyle steel wheel until the end of production of Spridgets.

You can buy old MkI/MkII Sprite wheels on the usual online auction and free listing sites. Worth keeping an eye out for cracks due to the age of the wheel as well as this was the reason they were replaced initially in production. The works MkI Midget rally cars had concerns about wheel strength apparently as well as racers. Search for Frogeye wheel problems on this forum for pics of cracks between wheel lug nut holes.

The Frogeye steel wheel will take a disc brake upgrade from later models, need to consider rear wheel cylinder size and master cylinder spec.

Cheers
Mike

Extract of part of a BBS thread on this:
http://forum.austina30a35ownersclub.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5193&start=45


M Wood

14" sounds like Morris Minor wheels. If they are also wide (5"?) they are worth a bit of money to MM owners.

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

AFAIK there were never any wheels with slots. The early steel wheels had round holes, followed by wheels with no holes.
Dave O'Neill 2

Thanks all, that fills in some of the gaps in my knowledge. ;-)
I think the slots I refer to are not in the face of the wheel disc, but are actually gaps between it and the rim. Possibly with riveted wheels?
The wheels I have are probably 4 1/2". They are fitted with 155/80 so together with the larger size and 80 profile tyres they do look tall.

Cracking wheel centres sounds a bit worrying. may reconsider the Plan. I experienced wheel loss on a mini, years ago when one of the front wheels parted company with the hub in the middle of Dorchester on the way to a wedding using wedding cars tunbridge wells - I was Best Man and was supposed to be getting the Groom to the church. We were dressed to the 9s in full top hat kit so quickly sorting out a missing front wheel wasn't on the agenda. A gang of lads on an adjoining building site came and manually lifted the car and changed the wheel, F1 style! We had cigars to hand round which went down well, and I had an extra bit to add to my best man's speech!
GuyW

Guy, The frogeye ventilated wheels have an extra two holes in the hub to allow for adjustment of the drum brakes without removing the wheel. The cracking, I understand, can eminate from these two additional holes down to the hub. Having said that I have never experienced a cracked wheel or come across one in 40 years of ownership.(this is despite in the early days using the car for autotests and sprints) I have always torqued my wheels (45ftlb)and used 145 section tyres so perhaps that has contributed to their longevity. It is true however the ventilated wheels were not recommended by the factory for track use!
Some wheel centres are riveted to the rim and some are welded. I have a mix as I selected rims from a stock I had which were not buckled or twisted. I have not noticed any difference in their durability

I personally like the ventilated wheels but that of course is just my view.
Bob Beaumont

Cracking was not uncommon with original wheels, riveted and welded ones, as Mike wrote here before. Tires are much better than 50 years ago, so the forces are bigger. As far as I know minilite's made its debut in 1964. I like them for not cracking. They are not lighter.
Flip
Flip Brühl

Guy, this is one of mine which I believe are original. You can see the two holes for (drum) brake adjustment:


Bill Bretherton

Thanks Bill,
That is the style that I had in mind. Just need to source a set of good non-cracked ones now!
GuyW

Minilites were not sold to the public before January 1966 and even then, those were the proper Tech-Del magnesium ones which were hugely expensive and no-one, but no-one, fitted them to Sprites. They are painfully out of period for frogeyes and Sprinzel Sebrings (not that anyone seems to mind, they're pretty!).

Sprite wheels were actually strengthened twice during frogeye production, but I'm not sure what the second reinforcements were (gussets?). The later deletion of the ventilation holes was said to be for strength.

Guy - I have what I thought was a set of four welded frogeye wheels, but on checking I see are two rivetted, two welded. Rusty but eminently blastable I think. Wing me an email if you're interested.

Tom
Tom Coulthard

There was one 'specialist' drilling holes in A35 wheels - only 3" wide - and selling them as Frogeye wheels!
Dave O'Neill 2

What's the width of an unbanded Frogeye wheel 4 1/2" ?

Thanks Tom, I will PM you offline.
Guy Weller

3½"
Dave O'Neill 2

So would that take a 145 width tyre? The tables I have only start at a 4" rim for radials.
Guy Weller

Yep, the rim is fine for a 145 tyre (see my earlier post) The original cross plies fitted to the rims were 5.20x13 which almost equate to 145x13 radials
Bob Beaumont

Guy,
I changed my previous Spridget to (NOS) 3½” steel wheels and ran them on 145/80 tyres and the steering feel was particularly lovely (on a reproduction spoke steering wheel).

As Bob has put for size of tyre but as I've put in previous threads/posts I wonder if even 135 would also be ok for a Frogeye as it's lighter than the later Spridgets.

(135/80/ tyres would be suitable for 3½”)
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Bob,
I had read your earlier message, but then promptly forgot it also mentioned your 145 sized tyre choice!
I think 145 would give the best balance between grip and feel for a 1098 powered Frog. I don't believe in great fat tyres on these cars anyway- it spoils their classic handling feel as Nigel implies.
Guy Weller

ETA: I posted this before I saw Guy's post but it stands as info for those that think 135 is an outrageous idea (it might be wrong but not outrageous as an idea :) )



forgot to put also load index of say Uniroyal Rainexpert 3 135/80R13 is 70 so load carrying of 335kg for each tyre plenty of margin for a Spridget let alone Frogeye

see -

http://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=145-80r13-135-80r13

http://www.tyresizecalculator.com/tyre-wheel-calculators/wheel-rim-size-calculator

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html




Nigel Atkins

Hi Guy

I my frog has a 1275 engine and my 145's are fine, recently replaced the Pirelli's P3000's for Uniroyal rainmasters. I like the handling and my pal says its more surefooted than his 07 plate Morgan when we did a trip up and over the Picos mountains in Spain this year. I have got a set of 5 1/2" revolutions with 165 x13x70 tyres for the odd track day but don't like them on the road. I changed the 9/16"arb for a 5/8" one.
Bob Beaumont

This thread was discussed between 02/11/2016 and 14/11/2016

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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