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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Frogeye window hooks

Window hooks - I mean the two curved metal attachments that fasten the side screens to the doors. What finish are they supposed to have?

One pair of mine are chromed and the other pair were painted, black. But there was no chrome under the paint, just remnants of a plated finish
GuyW

My original ones had a shiny zinc plated (or equivalent) finish. I believe the black painted ones were for the early fixed fabric sidescreen. The aftermarket AH Spares ones (which don't fit that well!) are also a shiny zinc. No harm if you want chrome for a bit of bling!
Bob Beaumont

Ok, thanks Bob. So someone has had one pair chromed if that's not an original finish. I could get the other pair done to match.

I gather from JE Davies' Mascot arrticle that there were different shapes to fit over the door cap rails. Mine match the rail profile pretty well so I think are correct for my car.
GuyW

Can confirm black for the original sidescreens as shown in picture.
Alan


Alan Anstead

The "hooks" on mine seem to be a zinc type finish as Bob says. I was intending to paint them with silver rustoleum maybe although constant fastening would mark that I guess. Interesting about the black sidescreen frames - mine are just the metal finish, maybe anodised (?) and the car is a 1958 although the frames may not be original of course.
Bill Bretherton

Bill
The original sidescreens as shown in the picture above, on my Frogeye, have a steel frame that supports a vynide surround with a celluloid type window. The 'hooks' at the rear upright of the frame have an upward 'tongue' they are nothing like the later anodised alloy framed sliding sidescreens.
Alan
Alan Anstead

Thanks Alan. Sounds like mine are later ones then. This car did have the multi-stud windscreen so would presumably have had your type of sidescreens.
Bill Bretherton

My windscreen doesn't appear to have any studs at all. It's a 1960 built car. Is that right? How should the hood fasten at the front?
GuyW

58 into 59 had the sidescreens as on my car. When I bought it in 69 it had both which I still have.
With the demise of the nine stud widscreen the front fitting is by two studs one at each end. Across the front of the hood is a fabric sack which hilds a flat bar. This engages in the forward face of the top of the windscreen.
The rear of the hood has a bar sown in with two exposed points and that bar engages two chrome sockets. Lift the dot and tenax complete the fitment.
The drivers handbook would probably afford a better description.
Alan
Alan Anstead

Thanks Alan.
On closer inspection there are two forward facing holes at either end of the screen. I guess these should have studs and they have been removed at some stage. So I need two studs. Would they have been Tennax or Lift the dot studs?

When ordering a hood for it Don Trimming list a Lift the Dot type and a Bar fitting type. I presume the former is for the 9 stud screen and the one I need is the Bar type which will also have just the 2 stud fittings. Plus I will need to get the special bar for the front or would that come with the hood?

I have all the other fixings and a rear bar
GuyW

Guy, have you ordered your hood yet?
Nigel Atkins

Guy

The last hood I purchased did not have the bars either for the front or the rear. That said you can easily make a front one. Its flat steel, 920mm long with a radius on both ends, 12mm wide and approx 1.5mm thick The 2 studs are lift a dot which thread into the screen frame. The handbook explains the correct way to fit and remove the hood from the car. I can send an extract if you don't have one.
Bob Beaumont

Thanks Bob, I have a MK1 handbook.
Useful to have the bar dimensions from you though.
GuyW

There appear to be two slightly different lengths of lift-the-dot stud available, anyone know which are correct for the 2-stud screen, so I can send Guy the right ones! I presume the holes in the screen frame are threaded, or is there a slot so a nut can be slid into place?
David Smith

Thanks David. I do have a stock of L t D studs. Two lengths as well, though the difference I have is in the threaded shaft part. The tops are the same. From the look of the screen I think it will take the standard, short ones.

Now I know where that is taking me I can order the hood. Adding to the decision process is the fact that Don Trimmings do 4 different qualities. 8 if you allow for choice between fixed and zipped rear screen. Their website does describe the different qualities to some extent, but has anyone had direct experience of the options?

Incidentally, a little while ago I was contemplating making my own hood. That was partly based on the prices I had seen - Moss at £300 and some others at nearly £400. And that was for vinyl, not mohair! These Don ones are around £150 to £200 which I think is reasonable, but is there a catch to that? I cannot imagine Don doing a sub standard product.
GuyW

Guy,
did you see my earlier post?

Do an Archive search for Don Hoods and see fair recent posts from Bernie and I.

Nigel Atkins

they are the shorter ones. Frogeye hoods don't generally fit very well anyway!
Bob Beaumont

Sorry, my last post should have not read - fair recent posts - but [ fairly recent posts ].
Nigel Atkins

Nigel, yes I saw you asked if I had ordered yet. I didn't reply directly as I thought you would gather the answer from my subsequent message when I said I could now go ahead and order one.

Bob, "short ones" ? Do you mean there are different styles of hood? What do they fasten to if not the tear drops on the rear deck?
GuyW

Sorry Guy, only saw the top part of your post.

Unless Don Hoods have improved since Bernie, someone else I think, and I bought from them I'd recommend you don't.

I still have on the desk in front of me the bottle of 'Stormseal Seam Sealer' Don Hoods suggested I get to stop the seams leaks on their four year old hood that they fitted at the factory.

'Stormseal Seam Sealer' really works well, if a little unsightly they way I applied it anyway, the 100ml bottle would be enough for a marquee. Perhaps Don Hoods include a small sachet of the stuff with every new hood they now supply.
Nigel Atkins

Guy, with regard to their different qualities, I was surprised when I ordered a tonneau that the superior quality I think it's called (the 2nd one up) is actually thinner and more pliable than the cheaper one and a lot thinner than the original. Although reasonably priced it was also not to original spec as it didnt have the angled side zips, although when I spoke to them he offered to take it back and supply one to the original spec if I sent my old one as a pattern.

Trev
T Mason

Thanks Trev. How did you know the one you ordered was thinner than the basic one? Is that what they said, or did they supply fabric samples to compare?
GuyW

Very good Guy, just didn't like the thought of some retailer charging an extortionate sum for p&p on a couple of 10p items....
David Smith

Guy, Apologies for confusion. I meant the length of the lift a dot stud. Its the shorter or standard length.
Bob Beaumont

My fault for asking multiple questions!
GuyW

Nigel, was your hood from Don Trimmings a mohair one? They say that all the seams on the vinyl ones are welded / heat sealed.
GuyW

Guy, be serious, do you think I'd have a mohair hood on my midget, mine is a black SQ as recommended by the man that runs the place (the son? of the father? I previously saw with my previous Spridget).

The hood was supplied and fitted at their factory in Erdington 3/11/15 and not fitted that well, my door windows fitting were blamed for this.

Just to refresh your memory, I went back to them for the hood and fitting as the hood fitting on my previous Spridget, a couple of decades ago when the father? ran the place, was show quality fitting, my previous Spridget was a lot smarter looking than my current Midget.

Obviously I always seem to be bellyaching about supplies and services so it could just be me as a bad customer to all these supplies and service providers and you'd probably prefer more opinions from people the like of Bernie and others.

Perhaps the company (the man running it) and its products have improved now(?).

As you know I like to also promote good products and services and this I previously did for Don Hoods and with Bernie IIRC so I feel a little guilty when the hoods turn out to be not not good. I like to promote or to warn others, it's up to them if they believe me or not, or think it's me rather than the items or suppliers.
Nigel Atkins

Guy, I phoned them when I received it because I was surprised how thin and light it was compared to the old one and also because of the missing zips. He told me the SQ material was thinner but better quality and that no one now made them with the side zips to keep costs down. As I said he did offer to take it back and make one to the pattern of the old one at no cost to me but I didnt bother in the end as it meant not having one at all for a while.

Trev
T Mason

Nigel, I do value your 'reviews' of products and services. The reason I asked if you had the mohair one was because you mentioned the sealer. I wasn't jesting! Not much sticks properly to vinyl which is why the seams are usually welded so sealer might have made more sense with a fabric material.

As regards fit, I notice their website, thorough and detailed in its text, has few photos and none that I could see if Spridget hoods. The have a link page which I rather expected would go to happy customer's cars but there is only one link labelled Spitfire, and that doesn't work!
GuyW

Guy, I would add that if I was going to buy a hood from them I would probably go for the cheap one, but that's only because I hardly ever use it. Also they make to order so I think I waited about 3 or 4 weeks for it. I suspect there are better out there but probably not at the same price. It depends on what you want I suppose.

Trev
T Mason

Trev, I have 3 tonneau covers for my other car, collected over the years. I don't like throwing stuff out! Two have the short side zips. I often drive with the tonneau fitted, fastened over the passenger side and clipped neatly down behind the driver seat. Without the short zips this doesn't really work as the cover then fouls the seatbelt shoulder strap. You end up with the cover scrunched up to clear the belt.

I was thinking of the base one as I prefer a thicker material, and anyway hope not to use it too much!
I see they claim to be the main UK supplier to the other major retail sellers.
GuyW

Guy, you just reminded me it also doesn't have the flaps to clip it down behind the seats either and yes it does scrunch up by the seatbelts. I think the thicker one would be better for the hood as the thinner one may be a bit too flexible but no doubt easier to stretch to fit.

Trev
T Mason

Tre, As I understand it, the MK1 hood frame is spring loaded. Not sure how well this works but in theory it should automatically tension the hood so adjusting for different temperatures /shrinkage / stretch. I have toyed with an idea of modifying the side rails of a later type of hood frame with adjusters or springs to allow for shrinkage. One of those 'one day I might' jobs.
GuyW

Guy,
businesses large and small often seem to have errors and anomalies on their websites, with the very small companies I'm not sure this reflects on the quality of their services or goods as maintaining a website is extremely time consuming and we all know how awkward computers, computers systems and the internet can be at times. However, small, especially family run, businesses often are more affected by those that own and run them for obvious reasons.

The SQ fitted hood I have I keep raised when the car is not used (mostly I have to anyway it being outside) as 'the son(?)' said should be done but I still find in cooler (not even that cold) weather that I have to pull on the vinyl to get the Tenax clips fitted. I can't say for certain but I feel the hood has shrunk a while back.

Given you live in the frozen north you might find my hood even more recalcitrant.

My previous cheap ill-fitting hood, that never leaked, and was used in all the same conditions for the 8 years it was on, I feel might have been better than my present hood if it was still fitted now.
Nigel Atkins

On my later car, the hood can be impossible to connect to the header rail in cold weather. The hood came from PGL Motors and I fitted it, as advised, on a warm summers day. So it's nice and taught but when cold in the winter it is sometimes impossible to even get the clips to hook onto the screen top, let alone fold over to secure it!

I suspect it's not any one supplier, but a problem with the modern vinyl material. It definitely hardens and shrinks after just a few years.
GuyW

The Moss hood I’ve just fitted seems decent enough. As usual I got it when there was a sale on. I bought the front and rear bar as they were cheap enough but if you wanted to save a bit then the front one is easy enough to make. The rear bar on the other hand would be a fair amount of work so I’m glad I bought a new one.
John Payne

Some pics:







John Payne

The hood and tonneau on our cars serve important tasks. Keeping the rain, wind, snow, and sunshine at bay, operating in all weathers and temperatures.
A well fitting hood performs its requirements where lesser quality ones do not. The hood needs to be a good fit around the sidescreens. How often do you see a hood with no seal around sidescreen or window allowing in rain and wind.
Some years back I tried a tonneau from Moss. It shrank over one inch overnight, in the boot, on a particularly cold night in the German Black Forest and it would not fit the next day when the sun came out.
About twenty five years ago I had a bespoke hood by a local trimmer (see pic above). It fullfils its requiements to this day. Back then it was not much more in cost than one from Don Trimming or the London Hood Co ( now extinct ). The trimmer said that my hood would outlast him and he was not wrong.
Alan
Alan Anstead

My Moss tonneau is going to be a nightmare to fit, it seems way too short. I've probably left it a bit late this year as I was going to wait for a very hot and sunny day to try and get it to stretch!
John Payne

This thread was discussed between 16/08/2020 and 19/08/2020

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.