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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Frogeye Wires

Will I need to fit a narrower rear axle to fit wires on my Frogeye? What will I need to fit them on the front given I have midget discs fitted? Any advice appreciated.....
John Stephens

Frogeyes were never fitted with Wires although after market adaptors could be bought which bolted onto the studs and converted to wires. These adaptors are still available, Most commonly on eBay.

The front is ok as hubs from a later car with wires will fit no problem.

With wires the rear axle is narrower (by about 1") but there was never a narrow Frogeye rear axle. Some have converted a later wire wheel axle by cutting off and welding on the necessary brackets from a Frogeye axle but it is a lot of work.

Best you can do is find a set (i.e. 4) of adaptors and retain your current hubs and rear axle then you will have a choice if you get fed up of cleaning wires.

Rob

Rob aka MG Moneypit

Mk2 Sprite & Mk1 Midget were available with wires, so there are quarter elliptic axles about, although they are quite rare.

Alternatively, I know someone in Holland who will convert semi-elliptic WW axles to quarter-elliptic.
Dave O'Neill 2

S221 raced at Sebring in March '61 on wires, this was a Frog-based car was it not? There seem to be lots of Frogs on wires pictured in John and Tom's book!
David Smith

"Best you can do is find a set (i.e. 4) of adaptors and retain your current hubs and rear axle then you will have a choice if you get fed up of cleaning wires."

Good shot Rob. That's a very wise comment. Best of both worlds. Wires are b+gger to clean.
Greybeard

John

What size brake master cylinder and rear brake wheel cylinders do you have? Upgrading the front to disc brakes needs a change to 3/4 inch diameter brake master cylinder and rear wheel cylinders. Drum brakes Frogeyes had 7/8 inch diameter items.

Also what engine and gearbox - as nee to match clutch hydraulics too.

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

This is often quoted on this forum and in my experience is untrue:-

<<
Upgrading the front to disc brakes needs a change to 3/4 inch diameter brake master cylinder and rear wheel cylinders.
>>

"Need" is a relative term. A 7/8" master cylinder will operate disk brakes just fine - I have been doing so in my Frog for the past 25+ years. You may just have to push the pedal a little bit harder, but just like getting into a different car you get used to it very quickly.

For what it's worth I have used both 7/8" and 3/4" rear slaves and I'm not sure that I could tell the difference in braking performance.

Simon
SA Wood

Having had a car with chrome wires and one with painted, my experience is that the chrome ones are much easier to clean!
Bit too bling for some.
Graeme W

Simon

Interesting experience. But I thought it might be useful for the poster to know about the original spec for disc brakes.

Background info, including the different valve in disc braked master cylinders:
http://www.gerardsgarage.com/Garage/Tech/DBrake/TandemMC_Part1e.htm

http://www.gerardsgarage.com/Garage/Tech/DbrakeUg.htm

NB can use Morris Minor 3/4 inch rear master cylinders on Frogeye rear backplates, rather than using later backplates and cylinders mentioned above.

Mike
M Wood

Thanks for all the info guys and interesting what you say about the master cylinder and rear cylinders. I fitted the master cylinder off an MGA with the extra fluid capacity. I don't know if it is 3/4 or 7/8. I didn't change the rears but it stops OK!!

John
John Stephens

Hi John,

I'm going the other way to you & replacing my stainless steel wires with alloys. I have the adaptors to fit knock-on wheels to a disc wheel axle.

There are a few pictures of both the front hubs & the rear adaptors on my flickr page along with the wheels.

Paste the text below into a browser to view:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/paulclark2812/albums/72157627668597059/page1

I will be selling my set eventually but I will need to complete the swap first so it may be some time before they become available.

Wire wheels are not without their own issues. I've never had a puncture in a modern tubeless tyre but I did recently have one of the inner tubes fitted to the wires give out on me, probably just old age. A simple fix but inconvenient.

Also the nuts which hold the rear adaptors need to be checked regularly as they can work loose. The rear wheel studs will need to be shortened or replaced to ensure that they do not connect with the rear of the wheel hub.

Don't let this put you off because when they are clean they look spectacular.

Paul
P R Clark

Thanks Paul, I'll bear that in mind. Liked the photos!

John
John Stephens

One issue with wires these days is that few tyre places have the necessary cones to mount and balance them correctly. My neighbour had this with his Morgan wires, the tyre place tried to do it but ended up with loads of weights fitted and not in balance. It's such a problem the local Morgan group bought a set of cones for members to borrow and take along for the tyre fitter to use on their balancing machine.
David Billington

This thread was discussed between 07/09/2015 and 14/09/2015

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.