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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Front brake binding

Hi all,

As you might have seen on the general topic, I got an issue with the front left brake of my midget Mk III : when driving, I can have a smell of brakes coming on, steering wheel wants to turn anti-clockwise when going straight, and the car is "decelerating fast" from 10 to 0mph without a gear in. I even had a the front brakes stuck once, with the disc brake being red due to the friction while driving... Since then, it has been pretty fine (on 5miles...) but I would like to do some preventive maintenance :)

Checking the MOT history show this in October 2017 "Nearside Front front brake binding (3.7.B.1)
• Front Brakes imbalanced across an axle
(3.7.B.5b)" and the car did only few miles since, so it comforts me in my plan to disassemble the calliper and start with a visual inspection of it. For this, I have the workshop manual which is really well described, but still have some (stupid) questions :)
- Do I need "imperial" tools ? I have only metrics keys...
- Will the hose leaks brake oil when I will disconnect it from calliper, or there is a valve on it ?
- if I buy a new calliper or make this one retrofitted, should I make the right calliper too ?
- Should I change the disc brake and pads as they got red...? Of right too if I change left ?
- I guess you will recommend to change oil fluid too...?

Thanks for advice,
Cedric
CH Hamon

Cedric,
Start with a check - When the caliper is siezed on, release the bleed nipple on the top of the bad caliper just a 1/4 of a turn. If fluid comes out and the brake releases, then that will identify about 95% certain that the fault is a deteriorated flexible brake hose on that brake. This is a common fault if the hoses haven't been replaced for a while. The hose becomes restricted on the inside so that it then acts as a one-way valve. With the pressure of the brake pedal the fluid flows through, but doesn't return under the lower pressure when brakes are released.

If the brake doesn't release when you do this, then it is either the caliper piston itself that is sticking, or possibly a fault at the master cylinder, although this would more likely show up as both the front brakes sticking on, not just the one.

Before you dismantle anything, take the filler cap off the master cylinder and stretch some plastic film over to seal it, and secure it down by replacing the cap. This will stop the fluid level from dropping and minimise any leakage when you undo any pipe fitings in the system. Remember to remove it when you have finished!
GuyW

You will need a basic tool kit if you intend to do any work on your car. I would start with:

An imperial socket set
An imperial ring spanner set
A set of screw drivers, flat and cross
Hammer
Pliers


For general maintenance tasks:
Grease gun, plus grease
Engine oil, funnel for oil changes, and a container to collect dirty oil.
Tool for removing oil filter
Thin oil for lubricating things like door hinges bonnet catch etc
Imperial feeler gauges (for tappets)
Spare fuses
Spare bulbs


There is bound to be something I have forgot. You can add to your tool collection as required.
(The Haynes manual has a list of tools they recommend)


To take the caliper off you might as well drain the brake fluid and do a brake fluid change too. You could clamp the hose, but I would change the fluid unless you know it was changed recently.

You can get reproduction calipers cheaply from places like Moss, MG Hive, Sussex MG Center etc. Some people have had problems with the bleed nipple leaking, mine have been absolutely fine.

New standard disks and pads are very cheap to replace and its an easy job to do.


C MADGE

If you bought the car from the garage you linked to why do you not ask them to sort it for you ? you don't have to drive it to them if its not safe to do so.
They note 3 months warranty and 12 months MOT on all cars on their web site.

There are various laws relating to garages selling cars which you can look up if necessary including return within 30 days for refund I understand ?

I would not attempt to sort the brakes on the highway theese days, especially if you have limited tools / experience.

It seems likely that the caliper has stuck piston/s and is best replaced and yes as the brakes have got so hot it would be wise to replace the pads on both sides.
Yes system will require bleeding after installation of caliper.
It is possible that the flexible hydraulic hose is faulty and causing the brake to stick on but without examining the car the caliper being corroded is a likely culprit.

You found the MOT failure, was it not them retested for a pass ? as at that time a '72 required a pass to venture onto the road and obtain 'tax' even at £0 cost.

Does it currently have an MOT or the new VHI declaration ?

R.
richard b

Cedric,
IIRC Chris was new to classics until the great learning process of owning his first Midget so he's a few steps ahead of you and has already learnt some of the starter basics (as well as a lot further advanced and wider) and he suggests imperial tools.

Some metric sizes are close enough for many but if you intend to work on the car yourself it is definitely worth your while to get the correct size spanners and sockets otherwise you risk possibly damaging fittings making them more difficult to remove in future - and previous people might have rounded off nuts and bolts using the wrong tools.

Personally I would be very careful about buying rubber parts as the quality has been piss-poor previously but if you need to replace the rubber flexi-hose I would be tempted to replace with rubber for now and then in the future when you know the car is fully sorted (well as much as you ever can) I would put on a full set of Goodridge brake hoses, fit and forget. The reason I would hold off from doing that now is that the rubber flexi-hoses can be squeezed off to isolate work or diagnostics to one area whereas the Goodridge can not.

You will remember that the brakes are the most important system on the car (not changing engine oil or fiddling with carbs as many seem to think) - followed by tyres, steering and suspension. Generally if you change parts on one side you change parts on the other side otherwise the parts are out of balance to each other - and the parts are so inexpensive and generally reasonable quality and reliable why would you not (other than as a dealer/garage).

I totally agree with your point about (OP) original posters not returning to the thread they started to if they have found the solution to add to the pool of knowledge.

I've no idea of your regular income is (you must be a millionaire at least to live in 'that-there Lundun', Gary is) but I bet a reasonable amount of money that you will earn that £3k. :)

Nigel Atkins

I fitted re-manufactured Calipers from Bigg Red in Worcester. Beautifully rebuilt. This was after trying "new" ones from a well known supplier which would not seal around the nipple. Still haven't had a refund. Must chase up.
Clive Berry

The Midget does not have imperial threads, the spanner sizes you will need are unified, or AF sizes.
Imperial spanners are BSF and BSW, and will not be suitable.

I agree with others, take it back to the garage.

Dave
Dave Barrow

Good point technically but generally to general population AF will be thought of as imperial (and course AF can apply to metric).

We of course along with USA have confusing and complicated systems, metric makes much more sense.

Halford often have offers on their Halfords Advanced socket sets which include AF imperial sockets which they call SAE sockets to keep the confusions going. When on offer they are good value but do bear in mind the number of pieces count includes every blade tip and Allen key etc. so sometimes the larger set are not as good value as the might seem.

To me the blade tips of any make are horrible things I much prefer actual screwdrivers.

Nigel Atkins

Cedric I recommend you first try Guy's check by cracking open the bleed nipple to see if that frees the brake. If it does free it the next step is to replace the brake hoses. All of them ideally.
If it's still sticking remove the pads and unbolt the caliper without disconnecting it, then hang it up with some string or wire. Then very gently use the pedal to push the piston out, but NOT ALL THE WAY! You just want to expose the dirty part.
Remove the rubber dust seal and thoroughly clean the piston with brake cleaner and a nylon kitchen cleaning pad. (The scratchy green stuff called Scotchbrite). Then gently push it back in with some lubricant. You can use nearly any lubricant like oil, light grease, brake fluid &c, but I like PTFE spray. Then reassemble it all.
That might solve the problem but I still think it is prudent to clean and regrease the wheel bearings after the brake and hub have been as hot as you described.
I also agree with others here that the dealer has responsibility for the problem, but only if you trust him to do it correctly.
Greybeard

I had the front brakes sticking on occasionally and when I checked I found the brake pads low and the discs under minimum thickness so I think the pistons had come out too far and cocked over a bit and stuck. Changing the pads and discs sorted the issue.
David Billington

Hi all,

Some updates : after going to 2 shops to look for imperial spanners, and fund only SAE and AF (and metric, obviously), i decided to go home and check the car and sort out the tool I would need in front of my patient.

Anyway, thanks to your feedbacks and to the enclose pictures, you will see that any tool was needed : faint of heart, don't click on the link ! I warned you...

So, without tool, i decide to remove the wheel and have a look. Despite have something to lift the car, I fund out that I don't have anything to unscrew the bolt in the car :/ My biggest tool is 17mm : too small... In the Lexus : too big... So, I turn the wheel full to one side, and this is what I have seen



CH Hamon

Then, I decided to turn the wheel to the other side. If you didn't like the previous picture, you will like this one even less... Seat before opening !


CH Hamon

I checked his colleague the "Right" guy


CH Hamon

Wainting for your blood pressure to go down after all those afraiding pictures, here is what I think:

The left hose is dead :)
The right hose will be retired soon :)
They both might be from 1972
I think I can't drive the car

I am still not sure we can exclude the calliper : either the hose acted like Guy said (one way valve) and finally broke, or the hose broke due to heat in the system (due to calliper pushing pads against disc brakes) while already being weak....?
CH Hamon

Cedric

Take the car back to the dealers and ask for your money back. Or ask them to repair the brakes.

Others on here will know about how to complain to your local trading standards and if/how the Sale of Goods Act applies. Also Citizen's Advice Bureau.

I would want a car with an MoT to have safe and serviceable brakes, particularly from a dealer and for a MG Midget that cost £8,500.

I would be doubting what the quality of the rest of the car condition and repairs are like.

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

The left hose is definitely not original. Looks cheap to me.
As Mike said - back to the dealer. Take a big stick...
Greybeard

The two hoses are different, so they aren’t both from 1972.

The right hose could be, as that is an original rubber type hose.

The left hose is an ‘upgraded’ braided hose. It certainly doesn’t look good.

I would still be looking at getting the dealer to sort out the faults with the car.

Looking at the MoT history, when it failed in 2017, it was the retested and passed the same day. It was obviously ‘repaired’ at the garage which tested it, as the mileage didn’t increase. The fact that it was able to pass the same day would suggest that no parts were actually replaced, unless they actually had some Midget parts in stock.
Dave O'Neill 2

ETA: I missed the third photo, I thought the two were of opposite sides.

Note: the car wasn't bought for £8,500.

Cedric,
the warnings are too late for some of us as the photos automatically open in the threads.

Another lesson - you may have already seen me mention piss-poor rubber this is often hidden by braiding (wire mesh covering) so even worse as you can't see it because of the covering. You also get it on flexi-hoses for fuel usually at the carbs.

(What's that hook in the first photo, is that standard?)
Brake bleed nipple could do with a nipple cover to stop the muck getting in.

Second photo the flexi-hose looks very stretched.

For the standard wheel nuts you need a 11/16" socket.

(Best if it is a deep socket with a bit of rubber or soft material in to reduce the depth so that the socket goes deep enough to cover the deep wheel nuts and save the chrome finish but not to scratch the wheels with the end of the socket.)

Very important is that the wheel nuts when you torque them back up only go to - see DH page 23 (much lower than you would expect).

Do NOT allow a tyre place, garage or mechanic to torque them to the usual modern 70-90ft/lbs (95-120Nm) otherwise they can damage the wheel studs.

Metric spanners to fit AF in an emergency or if you must(?!?)
. 8 - 5/16"
. 11 - 7/16"
. 13 - 1/2"
. 14? - 9/16"
. 18 - 11/16"
. 19 - 3/4"

Here is just one example of a combination AF spanner set, I would suggest you buy better quality than this though. -

https://www.onbuy.com/gb/temp-tools/imperial-af-sae-combination-spanner-wrench-set-12pc-14-1-kamasa-lsr36~c5752~p3641726/?exta=gshp&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIo83jpvvX4AIV2YjVCh20yg18EAkYAiABEgJrofD_BwE
Nigel Atkins

Dave,
is that the only MoT history going back to 200(5?)?
Nigel Atkins

So not safe !

As D O'n noted the braided hose looks wrong + probably strained when on steering lock and from the pic it looks like it has been incontact with some part of the suspension ? to cause the mechanical damage.

The tab locking washers do not appear to have been bent over to secure the caliper bolts (from the pic angle).

Not sure when the suspension last had contact with a grease gun !

I would take it back to the Dealer and get them to repair it and issue a MOT or get your cash back - who knows what else could be wrong especially with the brakes.
richard b

Back to the dealers, Cedric.

Those hoses are so poor it suggests it shouldn't have been issued an MOT last October or in 2017. (didn't you say it has only done 400 miles in the last 6 years?)
The brake back plate also suggests that your overheating of the brake to red-hot wasn't the only time this has happened. That back plate has had the paint burnt off it some time previously and has then rusted.
General condition as far as one can see is not good and not what I would expect of an 'honest' car at £5500. Brake hoses, lock tabs, non greased king pins, poor condition lower wishbone and general dirt / neglect all within the few inches of the photos doesn't bode well for other aspects of this car. It doesn't look to me to have had much love and attention for quite some while before the dealer acquired it.

It may becrecoverable
GuyW


It may be recoverable, but needs a proper inspection and will need some work to make it safe and legal, which the dealer should do. After that, it may need further attention in some areas to get it to a reasonable condition for regular use.

Either that, or get a full refund and look for another. Inspect it thoroughly, take photos and if the dealer doesn't accept responsibility then go to Trading Standards for advice. The dealer will not want Trading Standards to get involved so keep that as a threat to use late on in negotiations, if they are not accepting liability.
GuyW

:( the garage has been negligent. Any decent garage would be horrified and embarrassed to sell a car with a fault like that.





C MADGE

Cedric for tools try Halfords, their Advanced range is excellent and comes with a life time warranty. They sell the imperial size tools you need.

C MADGE

Halfords unfortunately no longer sell Advanced spanners in SAE, if they do let me know I want some, particularly another set of combination ratchet ring.

Cedric,
if you can get some "imperial" ratchet combination spanners with a reasonable thickness to the ring head then they are magic to work with, don't bother with the cheap thick double ended ratchet ring spanners as they often only fit went items are off the car because of the space they require. Swivel head to the ratchet can be both an advantage and disadvantage.
Nigel Atkins

I am not trying to be difficult or argumentative just realistic. Initially I was surprised at the muck and state and so I looked at my car that had the underside of the wheel arches cleaned this month or last and there was a very good covering of mud/dust on mine. I'm sure many cars would look similar if not quite so caked on.

I almost commented that in the second photo I did notice what might be grease coming out of the kingpin but the nipple cover still looked very dusty - I even wondered if it was on the overheated wheel causing it to wick out but wasn't sure things could get that extreme without the need to call the fire brigade.

My memory is bad as you know but I think most/many(?) of the cars that were put up looked like what I call 'fur coat no knickers' in that the exterior and often interior are very well presented yet under the bonnet and probably the boot are not as well presented and the condition poorer so I expect the undersides may well not match the condition of the exterior.

You could certainly say that the underside has not recently been thoroughly cleaned - that may be to hide things or out of laziness. Most dealer will not prepare a car until it is sold -this may be counter intuitive to most of us but the counter would be that the car would need preparing for every viewing and you can have a lot of unproductive viewings. Unless things have changed dramatically in the last two years even if you got to buy a new car often the demonstrator car will not be perfectly present and may have minor issues, unless it is a Lexus.

I think you would be on thin ground to suggest the back plate could only be rusty because it has been overheated causing the paint to come off. On a car of this age it could be a poorer quality replacement part anyway.

I used to spend two days cleaning my private car inside and out to prepare it for private sale or even trade-in (and same when I first received my s/h car) this would highlight any issues and not hide them as many might think - as well as presenting the car at its cosmetic best. Make of this what you will.

Nigel Atkins

"I am sorry Cedric, I would like to retire...or being rebuilt :)"
This flexible hose nut was endless...! I don't feel like rebuilding the calliper, I will just buy a new one. I am ready to exchange it for a beer or something similar to more experienced ;)

I think I will buy at MGOC spare (not so far from my work - I can go and collect):
Left calliper
3 new SS hoses
all new nuts and bolt - for the price it costs....

I have some questions :
- it looks like pads got red-ish.... I think i have to buy new ones and disc brake also ? Only left ? It is a shame, they are new...
- where goes the third flexible hose ? to the rear ? I need nuts and washers ? Is it easy to change ?
- do you have a procedure to bleed...? Which wheel to start with, how long to bleed per wheel to be sure there is no more air somewhere,...

Thanks :)



CH Hamon

Also, something "funny"... I guess I had the same head when I removed the wheel as you seing the picture : what could have cause that ?

I fund that the "wheel balance weight" moved a bit into the inside of the wheel, maybe due to the hot ? But could have they do that ? I am not sure... And i think I would hear it. It should be "quiet recent" as it is not rusty... I am impressed. If you have any thoughts....


CH Hamon

Last, but not least ?

How to change this... new cable ? I know I am changing subject... I should remain it "fixing THE one" :)


CH Hamon

What wheels are fitted to it Jan?
The nut and the end of the Track Rod End may have been ground off like that to provide clearance for some sort of alloy wheels.

The red deposit on the brake pads is burnt brake dust caused by the extreme heat when you kept driving wih he siezed brake. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to change them. Like wise the disc may be OK if it hasn't warped. Ideally you would check the disc for run-out with a dial gauge. Easy solution, as with the caliper, is to play safe, spend money and buy a full set of brakes, discs and pads. But its not the only way.

GuyW

Let's start with the easiest first.

Make sure the H knob is pressed fully into the dash and turn it as if to operate the fan motor. This will lock the cable into position.

Remove the fresh air trunking and check the flap is in the full open position.

Clean out and debris inside, there should be a wire grille to the heater box to prevent large object getting through.

Lubricate the flap spindle top and bottom with light oil or similar. If you have any thin rubber lubricant you could use it to help the rubber seal part of the flap. Do not use anything like grease as crud will stick to it. Be careful with any silicone spray as if you get it on paint it can cause hassle if you need to paint that later.

Undo the outer cable clamp and release the outer cable and route it correctly (the current stiff routing may have helped caused the breakage).

Careful cut round the outer cable to reduce the length of the outer cable, this will expose the inner solid cable. If it is nice and straight then just reattach. If not cut and/or straighten as required.

Do not over tighten the clamp on the other cable (I am not sure you can anyway) but do not over tighten the connection for the inner cable just in case it might snap the end off again.

Nigel Atkins

GuyW,
They are minilite. I didn't check the other side.
Concerning the disc brake, how can I know if they are wraped ?
I prefer to change the calliper as I don't think I would be good at replacing seal, cleaning, etc... I have to admit it :) But I don't mind "exchanging" it to more experienced ;)
I was kind of counting on you for the bleeding process :P

Nigel,
Thanks for the procedure ! But I think I need a new cable first, no...? :(
CH Hamon

I’m not 100% certain, but I think the heater cable is no longer available. Have a look at Moss site to check.

Other than Nigel’s repair method, your other option is to buy a used cable, which will probably be about £50, if you can find (a good) one.
Dave O'Neill 2

Cedric, (Dave)
I do not think you can get new, not in UK anyway. There may have perhaps been some new a while back or perhaps overseas or perhaps NOS discovered, something is in the back of my mind but not now I do not think.

The usual problem is that the heater fan motor switch is part of this cable unit and it is normally the switch part or its connectors that go leaving the cable operative so a separate switch is wired to the fan motor connectors and cable left in situ. My set up is like this.

I had to shorten my heater flap cable, by quite a bit I think, I can not remember why now but I took the opportunity to sleeve it in rubber as it could get close to the positive battery clamp - yours has already been oversleeved.

The original car battery had its posts at the back (nearest the cabin) near the scuttle but many replacement batteries, like mine, have the posts to the front.

Also if you do not have them already get a good quality wire-cutter. I am sure your Dad would agree that if you buy good quality, unless you abuse them, they will last you a lifetime of DIY.

(Below is an old photo much has changed since then.)



Nigel Atkins

To measure the trueness of your brake discs you need a dial gauge indicator

You can buy them cheaply at eBay or shops like machine mart. You will also need a magnetic base with it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dial-Indicator-Test-DTI-Gauge-0-10mm-Double-Pole-Magnetic-Base-40111963/282506336207?epid=26003301584&hash=item41c6b097cf:g:5P8AAOSwXXxZRpty

New discs are cheap though for the midget. Replacing them however is a more involved job which requires taking the hubs off and needs other tools such as a torque wrench and puller. That could lead to disturbing the bearings which becomes another more involved job requiring other tools.

Maybe first of all just replace the hoses, calliper, pads and put in fresh brake fluid. Bleed them, and see how the brakes perform before spending £££ on tools and more parts. Take care testing the brakes, slow speed etc.

C MADGE

Cedric,I agree with Chris. Leave the discs for now. They may be ok and if not it will become apparent later.
New calipers is a good idea.

I would clean up the pads with a can of brake cleaner. If the surfaces look sound re-use them.They are hardly worn at all but will have bedded into the discs so try and replace each pad in the same position. Use a little copper ease in the back of the pads and in the metal contact points, but keep it well clear of the pads and discs!

Whilst you are doing the brakes is a good opportunity to grease the front suspension points.
GuyW

Cedric asked for advice on bleeding. The traditional procedure is like this. You will need a piece of clear plastic tube that fits tightly over the bleed screw, and a container to catch the expelled fluid. A glass jam jar is perfect. And a spanner that is a good fit for the bleed screws. It must fit snugly or you will damage the screws - they can be tight. You also need some new DOT 4 brake fluid and an assistant, preferably good looking and friendly, sitting in the driver's seat.

Top up the master cylinder reservoir. Go to the rear wheel furthest from the master cylinder. On a UK car that is the left rear.

Attach your plastic tube to the bleed screw and put the end in the jar. Undo the screw about half a turn and ask your assistant to firmly push the brake pedal to the floor and hold it there. Fluid and bubbles should come out in your plastic tube. Tighten the bleed screw.

Tell the assistant to release the pedal and then repeat the procedure until clear fluid with no bubbles comes out of the bleed screw. Don't forget to check the fluid level in the reservoir every three pushes on the pedal - you must not let it become empty.

Once you are happy with that wheel, move to the other rear wheel and follow the same procedure. Then do the left front and finally the right front. If all has gone well, you should now have a firm pedal.

The most important thing is that the assistant must not let the pedal come back up until you have closed the bleed screw. If you don't do this, air will be sucked back into the wheel cylinder/caliper.

Remember that brake fluid damages paint, so don't splash it on the car body. Brake fluid is also flammable, so nobody smoking nearby. I hope you aren't foolish enough to smoke anyway!
Mike Howlett

Some of the alloy wheels have very little clearance at the back and are very close to or can contact the bolt end and nut on the track rod end. This can be helped by grinding a little off the extended end of the TRE pin bolt, which is ok. But in yours it looks to me that too much metal has been taken, especially damaging the nut like that.

I think I would at least replace the nut or better, replace the whole TRE and then check the clearance at the back when your wheels are fitted. Some of the TRE pin can be cut, but not too much. If your wheels still make contact then try using a 3 or 4mm wheel spacer, rather than cutting more off the bolt.
GuyW

Thanks for your advises, make sense to me.

Here is my shopping cart for the moment, from MG OC : any comment ? :)

For bleeding, any recommendation for order of wheels ? Bleeding tools/pipe/container recommendation ?

Cheers,


CH Hamon

Mike, a good, clear and succinct instruction in brake bleeding! Nice.
GuyW

I would always replace brake calipers as a pair, one each side.

And when they come they will be nice and shiny. Once fitted and used they will never be as clean again! If you want to paint them, now is the time to do so, before they are first fitted!!
GuyW

Thanks Mike, that exactly what I needed ! I have the lovely - patient - assistant and the jars (if I can hide somewhere the pasta that the assistant put in them ;) ), and can grab everything else
=> do you know the (internal? external?) diameter of tube needed ?

Thanks for the idea Guy ! I think I will stay "simple" for the moment :) I am learning the "basics" for the moment, thanks to the forum ;) Still have to go throught the "no start when warm" after... :p
CH Hamon

Cedric, the "third" brake hose is under the car linking the metal brake pipe from the front to the pipes on the rear axle. You'll need to raise the car securely to gain access. You really need ramps, or decent axle stands, the latter being easier to use if you can't move the car easily. Others will tell you how to actually change this hose.
Bill Bretherton

Cedric,
I can not remember what year your car is but the steering rack gaiters are a great example of care with ordering parts, different information from different sources and the parts themselves possibly being an example of piss-poor modern rubber parts.

In the Archive you will find posts I have put about these parts.

The steering rack was originally a Morris Minor type but at some point around 1972 was changed to a Triumph type (this information is in Terry Horler's book and elsewhere).

. MGOC Spares has - GAN5-114487on.
. Terry's book has - GAN5-114643 (RHD) (Feb 72) ... Also intermittently from ... 114244 (RHD)
. DH - page 61

Now your car might or might not be fitted with the original or original style steering rack.

The steering rack gaiters MGOC Spares and others supply are generic and the same for both racks. I've suspect they may fit the Morris rack but do not know what I do know for certain is that the generic gaiters are a real PITA (look it up) to fit to the Triumph rack with it on the car. I have done it two or three times the first generic gaiters lasted a matter of months before they crazed and cracked which was an MoT failure.

You may have the (earlier) Morris rack anyway, you can tell by the number of turns on the steering wheel (I can not remember the numbers now).

Generic gaiter kit below.



Nigel Atkins

ISTR from your pics that the rear hose was about the only part that looked like it had been replaced recently so probably ok for now.

As Guy noted, I would replace the calipers as a pair - especially as you are fitting a new hose to both sides.
I would replace the pads as they may well be cooked.

One other item you need is new tab washers for the caliper retaining bolts - turned up over the bolt heads when bolts fully tightened - to secure them from undoing.
I previously mentioned that this had not been carried out on the caliper you have removed.
The bolts should be torqued up on installation.


With the heater control cable, as Nigel mentioned its incorrectly routed and as its a very stiff solid wire all changes in direction need to be very gentle.
I don't ever use mine as I want air in the car - just use the switch (turn for on) to boost the air flow.
For now I would leave it with the air valve fixed open.
Cabin air is controlled by the footwell flaps/dash vents.
In traffic there is no ram effect so fumes do not easily get drawn in with fan off.

It might be worth asking Gary or Alan A etc if there is likely to be anybody in your area of London who would be willing to give you a helping hand - just to get you started and mobile - North Somerset is a bit to far for me to offer !

R.
richard b

Like Richard, I don’t remember ever closing the air flap.
Dave O'Neill 2

Some believe, wrongly in my experience, that if you partially close the the flap/valve it will heat the cabin/windscreen better.

I too keep it fully open through 16 years of winter use, my wife complains that her feet get too hot (metal parcel shelf in mine too).

You may not remember but in the past a couple of long term owners had the flap wired in reverse so that the 'H' knob was pulled out to open the flap. Not regular readers of the good book I'm afraid.
Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel,
Mine is GAN5-117777 if my memory is exact... (all those "7s" are catchy when looking at the plate)

Is it where it come from the argument around oil or grease in steering gaiter : oil for Morris, grease for Triumph ?
Now that I have a great grease gun :) I would be happy to use it for this too...
CH Hamon

Cedric,
you've got it (but are you sure about the number).

Usually I do not think anyone ever worries about greasing the steering rack but with your car who knows the grease could be like one of those French cheeses.

BTW do you know that the UK has many more different cheeses than France(?) and of course we have proper Bengali curry houses (well some, those that don't add buckets of sugar and chili powder for the "lager-louts") - proper English food.

And don't get me going on proper beer, real ale - no don't get me started on ale . . .

(eeeer, that red or white vinegary stuff your countrymen drink, you're so lucky to be here, shame about all the "craft" "ales" in that-there-Lundun though - why'd ya get me started(?) . . . )
Nigel Atkins

ETA: forget the number bit I was wrong.

You distracted me going on about food and ale.
Nigel Atkins

Some update: as the bleeder assistant left for 24h, I :
Had to do everything to be ready for tomorrow to bleed the brakes
Could spend as much time as I want with my mistress :)

So, sum-up:
- Calliper and hoses are set ! Hoses nuts are slightly smaller, so the "shape in the car" to hold it becomes useless... Didn't disturb me, less than when the "shape in the car" get damaged when I was unscrewing the second hose... a lot of french bad words in the street, sorry if you heard :p

- Heater is fixed ! The flap, at least... Thanks Nigel for the "step-by-step" ;) Still, took me one hour... This cable and the protection are so hard ! Cable is really long, so it could break again and be fixed again :)

- Steering gaiter....still on going :/
=== Question : Do you remove the tie rod, or do you go over it with the "bottle effect" ? ===
I couldn't unscrew the "counter screw" of the tie rod... I put some WD40 and try again tomorrow...

I also removed a lot of cables which were going no where... Hope i didn't get confused with a useful one :p

Cheers,
CH Hamon

(For cheese, I prefer quality to quantity ;)
For beer, I have spent a year in Belgium: their fries taste like everywhere....but their beers taste like nowhere else : best in the world, from far ;) )

Please don't take it bad and continue to help me :D
CH Hamon

Cedric,
When you have fixed the brake hoses put the wheel on and whilst still up off the ground, move the wheel as far left and right as it will go, as if cornering, and check that the hose doesn't make contact with the tyre.

If it does, you need to adjust the position that the hose naturally takes up. The way to do this is to slacken the securing nut at the body end of the hose and twist the hose slightly to give it a pre-load which will make it curl away from the wheel, then retighten the locking nut.
GuyW

Cedric,
do not use up all of your girlfriend’s Midget good will too soon, let her have tomorrow off, I will send you a one man and jar method, just needs time and patience, you can research other jobs whilst you doing the work too.

The heater cable at one hour is about right for a quick “five-minute” job on an old car, “ten-minute” jobs often take half a day.

Who told you to use WD40! ?

The track rod end will need to come off (easier if left to soak with a good penetrating/releasing fluid), you can use the two-hammer method (wear safety googles, eyes are not easy to repair) or have a look at the John Twist video or others. Mark and the count how many turns to get it off the rod as that is how many you turn to get it back to the same position but it may still need the steering tracking checking. The TRE nut may be a metric one so bear that in mind when you replace it.

Now for the important bit -
the UK has some very fine cheeses, some you would need deep pockets to get any quantity of. Belgium beers are good, the only ones you can drink in France, very strong but still fizzy/gassy. You are in England now, pity it is in London with its proliferation of “craft” and brown ales are at high prices but we must get you on ales. And of course here we have chips instead of fries (admittedly not all chip shops sell the best chips).

I had my present Midget for 6 months of use to check it was running well before I took it over to the ‘mountains’ of Belgium. The alternator light came on at the car park of the UK end of the Chunnel. I thought I had fixed it but I had not so I ran on battery power (always have a good battery). I would have made the whole weekend too if I had not forgotten to turn the headlights off after going through the mountain mists into bright sunshine. Run out of battery power to start the car the next day so we went on a walking tour of the village and stopped at a café for lunch. As I do not drink coffee I had cheap beer not realising it was lower priced because it was a small bottle of 11% ABV beer. I had a nice nap that afternoon waiting for the AA’s representative to arrive. Which lead me into another car adventure . . .
Nigel Atkins

Hi,

I got the tie rod out of the "wheel support" kind of easily, I am stuck at unscrewing the tie rod from the steering rack, especially the locknut which keep the tie rod in place (blue arrow).


I guess the new gaiter would not go throught the tie rod....? I don't want to damage it while trying...


CH Hamon

Cedric, you don't always need to split the ball joint because the inner track rod should screw off the tie rod. However, put the joint back temporarily and apply some heat with a blowlamp to the nut that you indicate, because it will be tight and probably rusted on. If you have no heat try Plusgas (better than WD40). Then put a good open ended spanner on the nut and tap with a big hammer, like a "club" hammer. Note its original position to which it should be returned or you'll disturb the tracking. It should loosen and then the tie rod (or track rod end) can be unscrewed off the inner track rod. You'll have to grip the inner track rod with mole grips or a spanner on its flats. Remove the gaiter (remove clips/ ties first) then lubricate the ends of the new gaiter with vaseline or swarfega/ fairy liquid and slide it on. Re-assemble. If there has been a loss of grease from the rack it shoukd be replaced. It's also worth checking for play in the inner ball joints whilst dis-assembled.
Bill Bretherton

Cedric,
now you are learning why it's best to use a good penetrating/releasing fluid like PlusGas rather than the likes of WD40. You need to leave the PlusGas to soak at least overnight, longer if possible, then try to slightly tighten the fixing to break the rust/muck seal before loosening. If it does not work then more PlusGas more soaking overnight and try again next day. PlusGas plus patience and time had never let me down. Let the chemical do the hard work.

If you have the Triumph type rack and the generic type gaiters then they will be difficult enough to fit with the TRE off let alone on. You will need the open ends of the gaiters stretching and sufficient heat applied to the gaiters to keep them stretched which will be very difficult outside at this time of year.

(I must admit I had not thought of leaving the TRE on.)

The end of the TRE can catch the stuck-on balancing weights if the weights are fitted to the usual position inside the Minilite (copy) wheels but normally the weights will just wear a grove in them. This will of course make the weights too light for their purpose and initially there would have been an awful clattering as they struck the end of the TRE.

Note what I put about the Triumph style TREs possibly have metric nuts on them.

You will now also realise why a little copperease or grease is often put on fittings to make the work easier next time.
Nigel Atkins

It is in ! It is in ! It is in !

First, it looks like the WD40 helped : i put again this morning, check few stuff, gave it a try...and it went ! The screw, not the gaiter... The gaiter was truely a nightmare : one hour. Sounds like not so much to fix the car, but one hour of trying to put this s***t looked like ages...

So it tried plastic bottle : it get in, but no space to remove the bottle afterward (I cut it before end anticipating this step, but didn't help)
I tried to warm it up with hot water - gaiter in a plastic bag : didn't work... Yes Nigel, it is cold and windy !
Tried to roll it up on itself : impossible with my hands....
Finally, I give you my trick, even if you might not like it : I used the can opener that I have on my Swiss-Mexican knife. Of course, I did it carefully to not damage the gaiter. Few degrees per few degrees, the opener was pulling the gaiter on the rack. 3rd try was the one !

Also, to remove the tie rod from the wheel, I just put back the car on its wheel, turned steering wheel, and it pop-out. Is it bad ? Don't know... it worked :)

My assistant is back, i go to bleed the car :)
CH Hamon

Very well done.

If you've got the Triumph rack and those generic gaiters and you got them fitted in this weather then it shows my Argentinian rack is a totally difference size as I took an hour, probably each side, in hot weather in summer using a hair dryer too, with the gaiters pre-stretched overnight on various sized necks of bottles.

Leave your girlfriend to rest do the one-man and a jar method.


Nigel Atkins

"I took an hour, probably each side, in hot weather in summer using a hair dryer too, with the gaiters pre-stretched overnight on various sized necks of bottles"
Much better preparation than me :P
I don't understand : nobody never invented a tool to make it easier ? Maybe something like what exists to set the inner tube on a bike wheel ?
How mechanic guys do in workshops ? I don't think they only "get the right gesture"... They either get the right tool, or the right lubricant, or both !

My brakes don't leak, don't bind, but my pedal stroke is way too long and brake way to light... I will bleed again, I remember the right front was almost without bubble on 3 attemps, compare to 6 or 8 on the left...

Also, it looks like all my bleed screw are different ! Not the same size between the two front, and the rear even smaller... Everybody has this ? How to make things complicated...more complicated :)
CH Hamon

Cedric,
the generic gaiters are not the original style or shape, and a lot less correct for Triumph style rack.

My rack was not an original but a remake from Argentina which obviously wasn't exactly the same dimensions as the original and the gaiters were piss-poor rubber so crazed and cracked in short order so I had at least one if not two practice runs with previous failing gaiters and would not attempt the work other than on two or three consecutive hot days. This is the kind of farting about necessary with working on the cars especially when you have to work outside.

For pedal travel have you checked that the rear brakes are adjusted correctly - DH pages 57, 27-8.

Did you not get my email with details of bleed nipple sizes(?)

The front and rear are different sizes but normally the two sides front and two sides rear are the same size unless a new nipple has been fitted at the front on one caliper or perhaps a change of front brake caliper on only one side. Or one nipple has been rounded off, or rounded off more one side than the other. Never assume the parts on your car are original or correct or fitted correctly or fully functional just because they are there and working.
Nigel Atkins

I think the bleed nipples on the rear wheels cylinders used to be 1/4", but new cylinders seem to have 7mm screws.

Fronts used to be 7/16", but I don't know what is fitted to the new calipers - perhaps 10mm?
Dave O'Neill 2

Dave,
my (very poor) memory has the fronts as 3/8" but certainty also 10mm, was 7/16" on B calipers?

I didn't think I used 7/16" on my fronts but perhaps I used 10mm and 7/16" is correct and my 3/8" is wrong.

The 7/16" spanner is always the first I think to try on the car and for some reason I though I remembered not in this case.

I'll have to research.

Nigel Atkins

Apologises Dave I've put 7/16" in two other posts of mine (not that I should trust my posts and information). The other size was a brain-fart of mine or what I had to use to get a rounded off nipple out perhaps.

I *think* the new nipples on my front calipers were 10mm but I'd probably now find they're 7/16"!
Nigel Atkins

Time to count the points ! (and update notes ;) )

Back original bleed screw : 9/32. I fitted a 5mm inner diameter tube to bleed
Front original bleed screw : 7/16. I fitted a 8mm inner diameter tube, was just tight enough...
Front new bleed screw ("from" MG OC) : 3/8. I fitted a 8mm inner diameter tube, was OK !

I have brakes again :)
CH Hamon

Well done Cedric.

You got there, you may find after a bit of driving around you can more air out with another session of bleeding but if the pedal is and remains firm with very little slack at the top of the push then you are already there no more bleeding required.

Also after a bit of use check the nipples are snugged down, do not overtighten thought. If there is just a small spot of fluid then that might just be residue worked its way out but if it is more you will need to nip the nipple down a little.

Just for future reference, the back original nipples at 9/32" is 7.1438mm are you sure it is not 7mm nipple, did you try a 7mm socket or spanner on it?

The 3/8" has me confused again as it is 9.5250mm and I'm sure I had to use a 10mm spanner on mine, I would have tried SAE first.

The different size tubing is fine but the 8mm tubing will fit the rear nipples with a small cable tie also fitted. Obviously the tubing is more elastic in warmer weather.
Nigel Atkins

Metric on english car ? Is that allowed ? :o

To be honest, i always try AF first (I am every day more and more British...).

I did use 7mm for the rear (don't have so small AF spanner yet, please don't blame) which fitted well. I did also use 12mm for the 7/16, was a bit loose, but i didn t use it to screw "hard" (i finished with AF socket)
For 3/8, i do have the AF socket and spanner, so I don t know about metric :)
CH Hamon

Perhaps if you read notes about near equivalent metric spanner sizes it might help.

The 3/8" after my 7/16" confusion just surprised me but I think there can be differences in size but have never checked, not a word to be putting in the Search engine unless you want to be distracted.
Nigel Atkins

To overcome the problems of differing bleed nipple sizes / hose sealing I use a 'Vizibleed' - basic bit of tubing with a short length of rubber hose attached and a plastic bit with a couple of different size holes in it - you select the hole size to jam the rubber hose through and onto the nipple - it secures the hose to the nippple - so no leaks.
So one size does front and back by using different hole sizes.
It does have a non return valve for one man bleeding but I still predef the two person method.

Cost about £3 last time I bought one - some come with a waste fluid container attached which helps stop spills from the 'jam jar' option !



Could easily make one up.
richard b

I saw these in Halfords just a couple of days ago. I have one about 20 years old but it is pretty useless now as the rubber hose end has swollen and distorted so it no longer fits any sized nipple properly! But it was a good simple device in its younger days. Recommended!
GuyW

I'm surprised at you chaps, £6!

That'd be £24 if you put one on each wheel!!
Nigel Atkins

And why would you do that?
GuyW

Why would you put one on each wheel ????

You need to factor in the cost of jam jars if they put a deposit on them !

richard b

Richard, I speed-bleed, it's like watching a whole F1 team when I'm working on the Midget. I'm putting the wheel back on before I've taken them off, sometimes I leave the wheels on if I'm going for a record time.

Other times, I'm chilled doing one at a time, spending most of my time on tea & pee.

I steal the jars from my neighbours recycling, currently for lime pickle to go with curries. all the shop stuff usually have mustard and/or chili powder.

I used help on a Corona round think I can remember seeing 10d deposit printed on the old bottle tops, was 5p I think then and went up to 10p IIRC.
Nigel Atkins

Probably my least favourite job is bleeding the brakes. Which ever way you do it, its always a bit of a faff !
C MADGE

This thread was discussed between 25/02/2019 and 15/03/2019

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