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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Front shocks conversion spares.

Has anybody replaced the bush/fulcrum in the top arm of a Frontline tele scock conversion?

If so, how much was the bush/pin?

FL dont list spares seperately.
Lawrence Slater

when you contacted Frontline about your need for a replacement part, what did they say?

Norm Kerr

Lawrence,

I know that Anthony Cutler and Daniel Stapleton have replaced theirs so hopefully they'll chip in in due course. One thing that might be handy to know is what vintage or the type and dimensions of the bearings are. At least 2 different arrangements have been used over the years, the current, last I knew, is a hard anodised aluminium shaft and IGUS plastic bearings whereas the previous was a steel shaft and oilite sintered bronze bearings, the two not being interchangeable. The oilite should be obtainable from any good bearing supplier, the shaft if required might need to be machined unless you can buy the parts from FL.
David Billington

No I haven't rung f/line yet, I Will do that today. buy I suspect it will be expensive, so want an alternative.

I'm amazed, I looked at my invoice, it was in 1998 that I fitted it.

From memory it is a steel pin, inside a steel bush without any thrusts either side. I can't remember seeing oilite washers, and I remember thinking that it wont last long. I could be wrong though. Only one side had gone so not bad I guess, but for the size of the thing I had hoped it would never need changing as I only drive on the road.

That said, british roads are harsher than a race track probably. ha ha.

I guess I'll strip it down and take look and then call f/line.

There is a local bearing suplier near me, and a decent engineering shop so hopefully i can compare costs if f/line have the spares.
Lawrence Slater

Well as you said David, the components have changed, and are NOT interchangeable and after ringing frontline, it's yes again, mine was a steel pin, in a bronze type bush, that it seems is generally unavailable.

They don't do spares for the original conversons, so I might be looking at over 175 quid(GBP). This is because I will have to replace the whole top arm and bracket, PLUS the AVO shock bushes (because the new bracket shock mount is a different size), -- BOTH SIDES, --- even though only one side is worn.

It's both sides, because Frontline don't spilt the sets, and will only sell a pair. I guess they are not able to supply spares for existing installations because they can't get the bronze bushes?

At least I dont have to buy new AVO shocks too.

Anyway, I'm waiting for a call from Frontline tomorrow, to tell me the exact cost, plus VAT of course. If it really is that much I have to think about whether to bother, or think about another solution. The only good thing is that the kit they now sell contains a bush that sounds indestructable. The IGUS plastic bearings David mentioned. But with the original cost of the kit, plus this, its not really been worth it. I might have been better just keeping on replacing the lever arms, at least financially.

I'm going to strip it down and take a look at what's worn and how bad, to see what if anything can be done. Frontline tell me that getting the oilite bronze bush out is almost impossible, so even if I could get relacements from a bearing company, and get a steel pin made, if I can't get the bush out, maybe is all so much dead metal anyway.


I resurected an archived thread, that contains a reference to Austin Westminster double lever arm shocks, and have been in contact with the poster. So I'm going to look for a pair of these. If I can find a pair, maybe I will sell my frontline kit for spares to whoever has one like mine -- for what its worth if you cant get spares.

Lawrence Slater

Lawrence,
I recently had mine apart for inspection and replaced the spindle on one side, I dont see anything complicated in there and I would have a decent engineering company would be able to turn you up a new bush from bearing material ( phosphor bronze cored bar). The old bush could easily be bored out with right machinery. I think thats what DB is saying also. Now i come to think of it maybe DB could make a small batch as i am sure there may be a small demand any time now.( he has the equipment handy)

FL are always keen to sell you new replacements rather than repair as they are business.

Ian
Ian Webb '73 GAN5

I'm along now. I replaced both sides some years back, when FL did 'spares'.

>>Frontline tell me that getting the oilite bronze bush out is almost impossible

As for the above statement... just not true... I had no problem getting mine out, using simple hydraulics.

The problem is there's no exposed part of the bush which to clout (with suitable bar on an inside edge). The solution is to put the steel shaft back in, break out the grease gun and pump some grease in. This will start one of the bushes moving.

Whilst continuing to operate the grease gun, stop the moving one from ...errrm... moving so the other one is encouraged to move. (I found this particularly easy since I have 3 hands ... no really, I'm on my own in the workshop.)

Once they've both moved a litte, you can drift them out in the normal manner (they aren't that tight).

I plan to replace the scintered bushes with something else, next time the clanking becomes too much. In the meantime, would like to hear others' solutions.

BTW - mine have been in there for a long time. I bought most of my FL parts from Oldfield Park...

HTH

Anthony
Anthony Cutler

Hi Ian,
>>FL are always keen to sell you new replacements rather than repair as they are business<< that's only true of certain businesses not all, but applies here

I can't remember if the guy that now runs it has an engineering qualification but certainly fits a certain type of sales stereotype

there are some good hearted sales people in this world just hard to find and blited by the general reputation of the job
N Atkins

Lawrence,

Last time I looked a couple of years ago the oilite bushes in the size FL used were available from a number of stockists. I think it was Anthony that posted the sizes he had in his. IIRC they were 3/4"ID x 1 1/4" OD x some length, can't remember that bit, so quite thick walled. See http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/?catid=2567&att1=3%2F4&att2=1.1%2F4&att3=
and

http://www.bowman.co.uk/Resources/Sint%20Bearings%20%26%20Excel%20LO.pdf for other sizes. Lots of options for pre-sized bearings exist but as yours were made for oilites that is likely a good thing to use. My experience with this design isn't directly with the FL units but I designed the originals that Tim Fenna, who started FL, copied, my mistake there for allowing him to do so. I used stainless steel bar for the journals on the originals and on one occasion I rotated them by 90 degrees as the wear was at the back and front of the journals not top and bottom, the oilite bearings having little wear. If I had the choice now I would use chromed ground bar for longevity but then I'm not trying to sell them.
David Billington

That link to the Bowman site looks like it'll need cutting and pasting and for some reason I can't edit the post although it still shows as an option.
David Billington

Now i have the later setup and i am not that happy with it!
Sure it beats the leverarm but i get a lot of play and have to do up the bolt 2 times a year to get it at its best.....
That is not free of play!
And after 3 years the clicks of the avo shocks have stoped clicking and they do still damp better than the leverarms but not as they did/ should.

Still in doubt if i should try and reengineer the top arm and find a suitable shock or go the adjustable leverarm +link+negative trunion route...
Onno Könemann

Onno which bolt(s) is that you have to tighten twice a year?

as my AVos were covered in waxoyl I cleaned off the click knobs with petrol (I found petrol was best at getting waxoyl off when I had a tank leak in my BGT years ago, just after completely filling it of course)

I thought the petrol might dry up the internal click mechanism so after I applied some releasing fluid, I could then only turn them with a small pair of pliers (car was on the ground so not a lot of room for leverage) so I added spray lubricant and then I could eventually turn them to up about 7 clicks by fingers before they got difficult again but I'm set a set 2/3 clicks anyway so didn't try any further

I actually wanted to drop a click on each as I'm experiementing with tyre pressures 2 psi above owners Handbook to allow for modern tyres (I'm a devil I know) and the ride was getting too bumpy (tecnical term)

See I do try things, I'm also going to try 4 psi above when I remember, 2 psi above is good so far but what the Handbook says is still a good starting point for those new to the model
N Atkins

In a bit of a rush at the moment.

But just a quick post to say thanks for the responses, ---- extremely helpful. :) Esp the bit about rotating the pin.

It seems there are options other than dumping it all. Thanks guys.
Lawrence Slater

"FL are always keen to sell you new replacements rather than repair as they are business. "

This is actually p-poor business. You may gain the odd sale of new units but people soon get to learn what you're really about.

Is there still someone about who sells adaptor plates to fit B lever arms?
Jeremy Cogman

Nigel
The top pivot bolt.
If i tighten it to much the suspention does not work.
When i keep it so the suspention works the nut works losse and i have to tighten 2 times a year.

The adjustment knobs turn they just don't click or adjust
Onno Könemann

Onno,

That does sound like the spindle is too short and not being clamped between the side plates of the bracket when the bolt is done up. Not really a good thing as it'll lead to the bolt moving and wearing the bolt and the holes it passes through. Have you asked FL about it.

Is it one of the newer ones with the aluminium spindle and IGUS plastic bushes.
David Billington

David
Yes it is the newer kind and i thought the same so i might try to shim it up.
Have not bothered with FL after earlyer experiances with their aftersales department.

Have been thinking about modding it to fit a taper roler bearing but i am not sure how they are with small movements instead of full rotation
Onno Könemann

You guys have got me worried now, I'll check as I've got to take the wheels off because would you believe the rubber of the tyre air valves have suddenly got deep cracks and they were to be swapped from front to rear but before I can do that the balance weights have to be moved (as I had to when first fitting the front pair) as they are positioned so they catched the TRE

the tyres and wheels were a package I bought just over 2 years ago from a MG supplies company

also the drivers door seal I fitted about 3 years ago has split - dodgy rubber everywhere still

Onno,
oh dear, off cam then, I think I had that once with some Spax as I'd turned them too far down (I think) I got it working again, I think just by keep trying but it was long ago so I'm not sure but it did work again

how about flooding it with releasing fluid and then lube as I've just done on the Avos if yours are not working at all you got little to loose by trying it

Last time I was in FL in Steventon it was really just one guy as the company with one mechanic and a part time lady I may be wrong but I think Tim Fenna is full time on other projects he was trying to re-establish Healey cars as part of a consortium (IIRC) - brings to mind Deloren
N Atkins

Onno,

I would expect taper roller to be fine provided they are rated appropriately, likely a major mod to the FL arms. The classic mini uses drawn cup needle roller bearings and that obviously works OK. I did consider the mini bits originally but at the time didn't want to spend the money on a kit and find they weren't suitable so used the oilites instead as I had used them before. More recently I did buy a mini upper arm service kit for about £12 and found it contained 2 Torrington 3/4"ID x 1" OD drawn cup needle roller bearing, the oilites I used were 3/4" ID x 1" OD as well. The mini shaft could be modified to suit the FL arrangement but then some provision would have to be made to take the fore/aft thrust loads. The mini kit did contain 2 plates that I assume take the thrust loads in the mini so they might be used. From memory the newer FL top arm you have uses a thinner inner tube to hold the bearings and they're smaller anyway so without reworking the upper arm fitting the mini bits is not likely an option.
David Billington

That is wat i meant with aftersales.....
I can turn the knobs from one max to the other with no clicks or difference in hardness.
They have been lubed to death to get them moving in the first place.
I have a good set of spax on the back and am wondering if they will fit the front
Onno Könemann

Onno,

It's quite easy to pull the base valve on the Spax in my experience. I modified a spanner to fit the ring around the adjuster and unwound it. The valve looked quite crude. I also remember that even on new ones that it could be very difficult to discern the click at the low settings. Maybe they've improved that over the years, maybe not.
David Billington

David, Onno,

the shocks are AVO (on mine at least) AVO are here in Northampton (about 3 miles from me) it's a freindly small counter shop office so I suggest giving them a ring and asking for a solution (one of the chaps name is Nigel so he's obviously a good guy, I think the other chap is Trevor but not sure)

(UK phone mumber) 0 1604 708 101

I think the shocks are under contract but I bet they are very similar to another AVO model - the shocks vary depending on FL kit I know all this because one of my shocks leaked just in 2 warranty for a change

cheers, Nigel

N Atkins

FL called me back as they said they would. Here is the bottom line.

They will sell me a pair of the new arms and brackets to take them, for £211.44.+ 20% Vat. I really dont think I am going to spend £254.57 on this.

So if I can't find the bushes, its scrap the front lines, and sell the AVOS. I'll give the arms and brakets away with the AVOS.

I have 3 options.
i) Try rotating the pins to see if the wear is only one sided and can be taken up.

ii)Find and fit new bushes as per suggested suppliers below.

iii)Fit Austin Westminster double lever arm shocks if I can get a pair. Actually I like this idea, and will get a pair anyway even if I can get new bushes or rotate the pin.


As regards seized adjusters on the tele shocks, I haven't tried mine recently, I suppose I better check them too, not that I have any need to alter them, unless to compensate for internal wear in the shock I guess.
Lawrence Slater

although the AVO were to contract you have to wonder how much they are designed for application when they are set between 0/1 - 5 clicks (that I've heard of) out of 14

I know from a freind with a Westfield (and I've had thre Westfeilds myself) that GAZ told him they tried to convince Westfeild to order different shocks and springs set up from the ones they ordered

again on the Westies the set up is 0/1 and 4/5(?) out of 12(?) for road use and you wouldn't go much higher if at all for track use

I'm also told that the valving isn't that accurate so you might have different clicks anyway but with the variances on Spridgets bodywork and components and tolerances I don't think we need worry as one error probably cancels out another
N Atkins

Lawrence
If you decide to ditch the FL kit give me a shout.
It would make a good test set to improve
Onno Könemann

Onno,
see my post about giving AVO a ring about your shocks, Nigel
N Atkins

thanks Nige I did see it and might just do that
Onno Könemann

Hi Onno,

I'll let you know if I decide to dump them then.
Lawrence Slater

Onno,

if it's a problem I can ring them for you

or just realised (very sloooow brain today) you could email if it's easier - sales@avouk.com

or fax - (UK) 0 1604 761 030

the guys are very down to earth, it's not a big company
N Atkins

mail sent
Onno Könemann

great let me know if I'm needed
N Atkins

Nigel
Nigel quickley replyed my mail and is indeed a helpfull chap.
Now i just have to find 2 weeks when i won't drive the midget so they can refurb the shocks ;)
Onno Könemann

Sorry Onno I don't think I can help with that

if like me you can't get the nut and bolt fittings off the damper(s) don't worry they can work round that and the fittings wont add that much weight to postage

at least you've got a solution
N Atkins

To part of the problem ;)
Onno Könemann

if it makes you feel better I've now got a click/clunk around front n/s wheel - will have to investigate Saturday, pumped full of grease now, me and the car

I'll also check the pivot bolts but it not that sort of noise or at the right times

and tyre air vavles are cracked ! I've never had that before, cheap rubber type products mind you they have lasted over two years so I suppose they've done well!

drivers rubber door seal has lasted 3 years before splitting
N Atkins

Well I now have some breathing space, since even with the clunk click as Nigel puts it, from my FL top ARM, and play in my stub axles/wishbones, I got a new MOT.

That is 6 straight passes.

The place I go to, is an old school mechanic who knows that these cars pretty well came off the factory line with play in the front suspension. He gave it a good going over and said it's not that bad, just annoying. He also said as below that it is probably possible to simply rotate the pin in the top arm. But worth stripping to find out why only one side has worn. (near side).

So when the summer ends I will strip it then.

Meanwhile I have plenty of time to source bronze bearings and investigate replacing the whole setup with double arm shocks.
Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 26/06/2011 and 30/06/2011

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.