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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - front spring removal and refit

regards for glasgow

I have a standard 1500 and at a recent car show i was told by someone that i can remove the front springs without the need for compressing the springs (not enough room on my last try) or inserting a threaded rods and this could be achieved by releasing through the inner wishbone fulcrum pins with a trolley jack taking the strain while undoing the pins is this correct and if so how do you refit the new springs without losing teeth and can someone give me a work method as regards

Douglas
df mccabe

Douglas,
You do this by undoing the nut on the top of the kingpin, NOT by removing the inner fulcrum pins.

Jack the front of the car up and position it securely on axle stands. Remove the front wheel. Position a jack under the spring pan. I find a bottle jack works best as it will fit up inside the spring base cone and is therefore secure.

Raising the jack will compress the spring. This should happen just at the point that the car is about to lift off the axle stands, assuming the engine is in the car to provide weight resistance. Then loosen and remove the castellated nut on the top of the king pin.

Slowly lower the jack which will allow the king pin to come out of the top trunnion and the lower wishbone to pivot downwards, taking the compression off the road spring. When the spring is no longer compressed at all, remove the jack, drop the lower wishbone out of the way and remove the spring.

Guy
Guy

Douglas. It's not that hard to change the front springs. I have used the long bolt method and it probably takes a bit longer than other methods but at least I had no surprises. (Ok, so I was a big weenie but better to play it safe than be sorry!)

I just used a 4 pieces of threaded rod with a nut welded to the end so it wouldn't turn. You can use 2 nuts tightened together to lock them in place.

Loosen up the wheel nuts. Jack the car up, remove the wheel and use 2 good jack stands. Take the pressure off the spring by jacking up the wishbone and place a piece of wood under the shock arm. Don't forget to remove this afterward!!

Remove 2 spring mount bolts. (Must be opposite from each other.) Drop in your threaded rods and tighten up the bottom nuts finger tight. Remove the remaining spring mount bolts. Use the remaining rids and again, finger tight on the nuts will do

Loosen up the threaded rod nuts evenly and remove the spring.

Installation is just the reverse. Watch out that you get the spring mount on correctly as it's not square and the 2 remaining bolt holes won't line up properly.

Others have put a floor jack under the spring mount, removed the bolts and lowered the spring that way. Installation that way is just the reverse.

The good thing is that the midget springs don't have a lot of rebound tension on them compared to other much heavier cars so it won't need a safety chain. I think I did that too but it was many years ago and I'm not really certain.

Check your new springs. I was sent a couple from a 1275 Midget. They fit but they don't let the car ride as high on the front as the proper springs do.





Clive Reddin

Douglas,
another vote for the long bolt on the spring pan method..
Get a length of of threaded rod and matching nuts from Screwfix (think I used 8mm). Cut four lengths of approx 150mm and, as Clive says, use a double nut at one end. If you weld a nut on, it can make it difficult to get the bolt in the holes because of contact with the spring.

Very straight forward and safe way of get springs on and off.

regards

MGmike
M McAndrew

I used the long bolt (threaded rod actually) method recently. 10 minutes each side. It's not worth the hassle of undoing the top of the kingpin.

Chris
Chris H (1970 Midget 1275)

I also use the long bolt method and built a special set of bolts for the job from some threaded stock and coupling nuts. I also made up a special socket for the job that allows me to use my air ratchet if I want.


B Young

Another vote for the long bolt method, why would you want to do it any other way ?.

Dave
Dave Barrow

Dave,
Because you just take the tension off the spring with the jack in a controlled manner. You don't need to undo the 4 bolts holding the spring cone, you don't need to find long bolts, and it is quicker. That's why.
Guy

I have no idea what spring strength is fitted to my car, but if I just lift it on a jack, all that happens is that the car lifts up. Perhaps a PO fitted stronger springs. And yes, the engine was in when I did it.

Dave
Dave Barrow

Dave,
That's right. You are not attempting to compress the spring any more than it would be if the car were standing on all 4 wheels. So you jack it up until the car just begins to lift off your axle stands. That is all you need to do. Then slackening the castellated nut releases any residual tension on the spring. By the time the nut is coming off there is absolutely no tension left as the car (and spring) is then supported on the jack. Lower away and lift the spring clear.

The only time when this won't work is if you have removed the engine. At which time you enlist the help of an Attractive Assistant to perch daintily on the wing.
Guy

I've done it loads of times using the method Guy describes. By the time you've been to the shop to get the threaded rod, nuts etc you can have the job done.

Bernie.
b higginson

My vote goes to the remove top trunnion method too.

It's the only way I have ever done it, because it's so easy, and doesn't need any special tools or bolts.
Lawrence Slater

If all I were going to do is change the springs, I would probably release the pressure with the upper trunnion link, then remove the spring pan to slide the spring out, reversing the process with the new spring. This would eliminate the need to pull the ARB link, the TRE, and the brake line, as tends to be the case when you pull the spindle all the way down to remove the spring.

Of course, when was the last time anyone ever touched the front suspension of a Spridget for the first time and got away with only changing the springs??? Chances are that you will need new wishbones, fulcrum pins, bushings, etc. etc.
David "the optimist" Lieb
David Lieb

David,
I don't see that makes any difference, if what you are saying is you are likely to need to remove the lower wishbone and king pin for a strip down. In that case you will need to undo that top castellated nut anyway. And the one thing that you don't need to remove is the spring seat! And if you do choose to, it is far easier done once the spring is out of the way.

If it is just to remove the spring - which is what the original question from Douglas was about - then you don't need to remove the TRE. And so long as you have both sides jacked up, you don't need to undo the ARB mount either.
Guy

Guy,
My second paragraph was pointing out that the likelihood of not needing more than new springs is infinitesimally minute. Once you have accepted that, pull everything apart, using the upper trunnion method, as you suggest, to release the pressure.

The original premise, as you say, was to merely replace the springs. In my experience, it has wound up being necessary to disconnect the TREs and the ARBs and the calipers in order to get the wishbone to full extension to remove the spring. I might be getting old and forgetting it (kinda like they say about childbirth and the existence of second children).
David "better to get old than not to" Lieb
David Lieb

I dislike the long bolt method as it generally takes me ages and I often can't find bolts of the right grade. I generally drop the spring pan with a scissor jack with a slack bolt just in case.


BH Harvey

Douglas, as you can see, there's more than one way to skin a cat as they say. You'll have to choose which is the best way for you.

In general, threaded rod will suffice to remove the spring mount, you won't need high tensile bolts and there's no need to disconnect brake lines, anti-roll bar or anything else.

Putting a jack under the mount then lowering it after removing the bolts will work too, I just never tried it that way.

Jacking the car won't compress the springs further either as they are already compressed to their lowest by the weight of the car.

Good luck with your project and think of the money you just saved by doing it yourself!
Clive Reddin

Two different ways, both quite easy to do (yes, I have used the long bolt method too!) AndI wasn't meaning to make an argument of it!

Actually I have also done it a third way, a sort of hybrid. You use the weight of the car to control the spring, with a bottle jack placed under the spring perch (NOT the wishbone). Jack it up to take the weight off your axle stands onto the spring and then just undo the 4 bolts. Once they are off, lower the jack slowly to remove the spring. It is OK, but a bit scary as one is working with fingers close to the spring which is only held by the jack. It therefore carries the risk that if something goes wrong and the jack slips, pain and possibly long-term injury will result. So although I have done it this way I do NOT recommend it.

Way back with Douglas' first post he asked about removing the inner fulcrum pins to release the spring. I don't think this is practical. Those pins are difficult to remove and replace at the best of times. And a wishbone only attached at the outer end could thrash around like a fearsome and dangerous thing when powered by a road spring.

Guy
Guy

Another vote for the 'GUY' method, I am mildly capable, but was not sure of the long bolt method,so used the tools I had, it works like a charm.
RUS(59SPRITE)

If there's no engine in the car (as with mine) then there isn't enough weight in the car to use the jack method. But the long bolt method works well.
Mike Howlett

Can conventional coil spring compressors be used to fit new spring as I can't either of the other methods?

Any advice going this route?

(Frontline damper conversion fitted to wishbones & no engine in the car at present)

Thanks
Paul Clark

I tried a pair of spring compressors once, and found that I couldn't compress the spring enough.

This may sound silly, but you could use a couple of full cement bags, or sand, which is even cheaper, to simulate the weight of the engine. That should allow you to use the conventional jack method.

Wicks or B&Q sell sand in 25kg bags for a couple of quid. If you soak the sand it will be even heavier. If two aren't enogh use three.

Or as someone suggested earlier, have a helper sit in the engine bay, or on the wing. As long as they haven't been on a crash diet they should be heavy enough :)



Lawrence Slater

That's where the Attractive Assistant comes in handy!
The only problem being it is easy to get distracted, depending to some extent on the attire of the Assistant.
Guy

This thread was discussed between 23/08/2011 and 31/08/2011

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