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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Front Suspension Re-assembly

This weekend I will be re-assembling the front suspension on my car (1275 A series) and would like to know at what stage the springs go in.

I have 8" long springs from Magic midget and a Frontline conversion.

Currently I have the top items fitted and the bottom wishbones fitted with the kingpins connected to the bottom only.

I wound the old springs out with two long bolts.

So basically I am asking when and how should the springs be fitted, everything is new.
Martyn Wilks

I like the wind in method with two long slave bolts as per the workshop manual. its longer than other methods but safer!
Bob Beaumont

from my own rebuild with frontline, You need to connect top and bottom of kingpins first then push the spring up through the wishbone and wind it in with the spring pan / two bolts. Only once you've got the spring in and secure can you add the bottom shock bracket as it bolts across the bottom of the wishbone and obscures the hole for the spring.


graeme jackson

I seem to recall that last time I put the spring in without the kingpin connected to the damper (std. not frontline arrangement). Spring pan even then might have needed a few slightly longer bolts to get it sorted.

Then used a jack under the wishbone to compress the spring to get the kingpin/damper connected. Without the engine in though there's little chance of using the weight to compress the spring like that and you will need to do the whole thing with long bolts as suggested above.
Dean Smith ('73 RWA)

Thanks for your help, there is nothing in the engine bay at present other than fresh air:-) I have already bolted up the bottom shock mount which is an issue to remove, however Graeme could I roughly insert the spring before I bolt up the kingpin and then use the long bolt method.

The bottom shock mount are a little tight in the pan and I would prefer if possible not to damage my lovely powder coating
Martyn Wilks

Martyn,

My own experience with the Frontline set-up was that getting the lower brackets to fit into the wishbones was a bit of a struggle.

So I fitted the brackets off the car then assembled the front suspension without the spring, damper and trunnion pin. Then inserted the spring & compressed it with a trolley jack before inserting the pin. It was easy then to attach the damper.

Like Dean I found it difficult to compress the spring without the engine in place so I used a couple of bags of builders sand to keep the chassis down.

There are some images about halfway through the attached link:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulclark2812/sets/72157627668597059/

Good luck with your build.
P R Clark

Martyn

Just a tip

if you get it all togather and look at the front and the car looks like benny the walrace aka the wheels angled inward at the ground

your trouin links are installed 180' backwards ... at least one of us here on this site has done this ΧΏ~

♥♡♥ Prop ♡♥♡
prop

The more I look at that photo of the Frontline suspension that Graeme posted, the more horrible the design looks. Particularly the damper which is way out of line with the axis of movement and connected at the top and bottom by a long unsupported link. The Spridget suspension (from the old Austin A30) was never great anyway because of the single top mounting for the lever arm damper. The twisting forces on the Frontline set up must be considerable, especially when you hit the bumpy stuff. But I guess there was little else Frontline could do without redesigning the bodyshell. Has anyone ever come up with a better engineered design that fits in the space?
Mike Howlett

Whatever you do, do not forget to put the bump stop in before the spring! yeah, that was a tedious evening of my rebuild when I noticed that one.

Prop: where did you get those hearts from?!

Mike: Agreed, they are some pretty poor load paths.

Cheers,
Malcolm
Malcolm Le Chevalier

Mike, I've always thought the way you do about the geometry of the Frontline design. The damper appears to be completely in the wrong place, but, although I have no personal experience of it, people who have installed it have posted good reports about it.
I sometimes wonder if it's a case of "I've spent all this money, so it must be good". And it is very expensive.

Jonathan Heap does a beautifully engineered double wishbone, coilover set up, but that is even more expensive and requires alteration of the chassis. Having said that, if I could afford it, I would have it like a shot.

I am currently seriously thinking about changing to MGB or A60 front shocks to provide the triangulation which is missing with the standard set up and which will be within my budget.


Bernie Higginson

Mike and Bernie,

Frontline didn't do the original design, I did, inspired by the need to come up with something to replace the LA damper due to the poor state of the recons available in the mid 1980s, I don't think much has changed. The cantilevered upper pick-up isn't ideal but does work and was needed in order to fit the damper in the space available and provide a simple bolt on upper unit, see http://www.metal-arts.co.uk/sprite/frontsuspmods/index.html . I did consider a bell crank upper arm and inboard dampers but the dampers I intended to use wouldn't have liked the resulting shallow inclination they would have needed to be mounted at. I did note the other day that AVO do a monotube damper with remote reservoir so that would be a good candidate for inboard mounting. Having already fitted telescopics to the rear of my Sprite and noticed the improvement that made the addition to the front was again a major improvement and I built them, not bought them. I know that LA dampers can be good when in good condition, my A40 Farina had a good pair, but a succession of poor recons on the Sprite was enough for me to build those units and I don't regret it, I just regret having allowed Tim Fenna to make a copy for his own use.
David Billington

David. Frontline have made a lot of money by nicking your design. If it were me I'd be furious.
Although I said that I think the damper is in the wrong place, I can't honestly see what else you could have done in the space available. Also, it's all reversible as you didn't need to cut the car about. Even using MGB dampers requires cutting the inner wing. The JLH setup might be a bit too radical for many people and I believe it costs in the region of £1500.

Your thoughts on an inboard damper arrangement sound very interesting. I look forward to seeing the results. (I promise not to steal it)😈
Bernie Higginson

Picture from my 'interesting ideas' folder, cant remember where i got this from.
Looks a bit unwieldy, but im sure you could play around with the ratio's for the bell crank to make it look less obtrusive...

Back to the original post, i have always used the two long bits of threaded rod method as i found that even with my engine in, the jack lifted the whole car before compressing the suspension.
But the last time i had to do it i got a dustbin balanced on the front and filled it with water to hold the car down. Using the 'jack up the A-arm' method is much quicker and easier and less time lay on the floor wielding spanners.


Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

A lot of wasted stroke on those dampers by the looks Andy. I'd move the pivot point to improve the stroke of the dampers, or move the bottom mount point to enable the use of a short stroke damper
J White

Hi guys,


The Fishe Fury kit cat uses a similar arrangement.......



Seem them race and they go round corners well!



http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andy.murdoch1/images/November%202000/Rolling%20Chassis%20front%20view.JPG





SR Smith 1

You have a 404 error on that link mate.
J White

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, yr right, sorry guys.



Cut and paste the link if you want to see.
SR Smith 1

If I was doing it I would try and use a higher rate short stroke damper to try and keep the size down.

I suspect the Fisher has gone down that route due to the ready availability of strut type uprights and of course it helps keep the unsprung weight down.
David Billington

Andy, you surprise me, a dustbin full of water! Don't you have an Attractive Assistant to sit on the front of the car?
GuyW

Sorry guy

skinny little thin girls are not enough ... you need butt crack bubba all 385 pounds to compress the springs

for some reason i recall using my electric impact wrench the last time i used the 2 bolt meathod... but i cant remember the details of how i did it.
prop

Hello malc

€☆★◆◇○°●□♡♥...thats all of em folks

Im trying a new phone UI ... and there on one of the keypads

prop
prop

Guy, i tried that, its takes two of them and it was far too distracting...
Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

Andy

thats why you only want one 385 pound butt crack bubba to sit on the front wing...prefably in a speedo to help make the job go faster to completion.... no distraction there

prop
prop

This thread was discussed between 12/05/2016 and 15/05/2016

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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