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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Front wheel bearings

I know this topic has been covered numerous times but :
Fitted new front wheel bearings to one side, as been mentioned numerous times on this forum the radius on the inner bearing is incorrect, is 1mm but should be 2mm. Easily resolved using Dremel to increase rad size, bearing fits up to stub axle shoulder now. Prior to this there was a gap as bearing sat on the radius.
Once all fitted and torqued up there is no play in the bearings but some slight resistance, is this normal?
If I spin the wheel it will rotate freely for a couple of times where as the other side (bearings 23 years old) will spin much more.
Guessing the bearings are not face adjusted so not sure if I’m overloading the bearings.
Thanks
Les
Les Robinson

Les

Non face adjusted bearings are sometimes ok. What was the spec of the ones you fitted?
Bob Beaumont

Hi Bob
The make is Powertune - never heard of them!! From what I can gather all the bearings available from the usual suppliers are non branded.

Are face adjusted bearings available anywhere? Supplier?

Off to Holland then Treffen in Germany this Friday so not much time to get it sorted.
Les
Les Robinson

Hi Les,

Have a google search on this part number: GHK1142Q

I was reliably told these are face adjusted bearings you need.

I’m sure though, recently on the forum there was a post were someone said somebody else was manufacturing face adjusted bearings, but I can’t find the post.

Sure someone will confirm.

Here’s my write up of my experience which might help you

https://www.mgmidgetrestoration.com/2021/06/front-wheel-bearings-refitting.html

Good luck

James
James Paul

James

Brilliant write up, thank you.
Can’t find anyone having stock of GHK1142Q, does anybody know of a stockist?

I have two Haynes manuals, 1974 and 1984.
The earlier one states nut tightening torque as 55 - 65lbft.
The later one states 46lbft for disc brakes and 55 - 65lbft for drum brakes - very odd as the bearing arrangements are exactly the same. I’ve gone for 46lbft as it allows the wheel to rotate more freely (I have disc brakes).

Les
Les Robinson

Peter May has the face adjusted bearings.
MGOC awaiting stock.
And I think AH spares has a choice, the most expensive being face adjusted I believe.
Moss may be the same; choice of 2 types.
Hope that helps!
Andrew
aj robinson

Les

I have a set of NOS RHP bearings if your stuck.

Bob
Bob Beaumont

Bob
That is very kind of you, my existing were also RHP.
Ideally need them for Wednesday or Thursday at absolute latest, would that be possible?
I can try Peter May, they are on website but no mention of being face adjusted. Can ring them Tuesday.
Bob, my email is les.sprite@gmail.com so can sort any further details and payment etc.

Les
Les Robinson

Les

Email sent

Bob
Bob Beaumont

I remember now it was Peter May that was making the bearings.

But the NOS ones Bob sold me are still working perfectly!

James Paul

Les, I've got a set of RHP bearings and will be in Wilmslow Tuesday. If you want them let me know before then.
Remember the dead battery I had at the Winchcombe run? well it returned today with the new battery I bought in Evesham. This time I investigated properly and found the dynamo output wire (yellow on Frog) had become disconnected at the regulator box end so it looks like I have a spare battery!
I'm struggling a bit as well getting the Frog ready for our trip. I've been swapping diffs and so far after trying 3 I haven't found a decent one. I've still got one 3.9 to try on Monday, if it isn't an improvement we may be going in the day car.
Rob
MG Moneypit

And worse case, add a 1 or 2 thou shim to lengthen the spacer. That'll free up the powertunes.

The torque difference is unlikely to have compressed the spacer more or less I wouldn't think.

anamnesis

Rob - I am getting bearings from Bob Beaumont but thanks anyway. Should get them Wednesday so plenty of time.
Weird about the battery, fitting new seemed to sort it, guess just because it was fully charged. Bit annoying that it was just a disconnected wire.
Hope you get the diff sorted, what was wrong with the one that was fitted?

Anamnesis - I thought about fitting shims but wouldn’t be sure how free the bearings should be, plus not sure where to get shims.
Using the higher torque figure stated in Haynes manual shouldn’t affect the bearing clearance but my wheel went considerably stiffer to turn. Fitting the correct face adjusted bearings should resolve any issues. This assumes that my spacer is correct length, guessing it is as was ok with the original bearings, in fact they were too loose (due to 23 years of use) hence changing them. Will measure it anyway prior to reassembly, should be 1.5”.

Les
Les Robinson

The PDF has been posted before I believe but may be handy for future reference. It mentions using MGB shims if required.
David Billington

David, very useful thank you.
I am guessing that this is true only if using face adjusted bearings though.
Will try to measure mine. It’s useful to know what shims to use.
Thanks
Les
Les Robinson

Les,

Yes that applies to the OE face adjusted bearings. Face adjusted bearings are available from Bearingboys IIRC but I can't find the spec numbers I have saved away somewhere, they're standard so have the smaller standard radius but then you've already dealt with that on your Powertune branded bearings. likely what Peter May supplies and the entry on his site mentions that the radius has been adjusted to the correct 2mm or there abouts to suit the stubaxle fillet radius.
David Billington

Les. OK about the bearings although I did change a FWB in the middle of France as you remember, which turned out to be loose wheel nuts on one rear wheel. I'll put a pair in my traveling spares stash just in case.
The diff is all on account of the Suzuki gearbox I fitted which exhibits lots of gear chatter when on the overrun going downhill. The gearbox was newly reconditioned and the supplier suggested it was backlash in the diff. Doing the one wheel off the ground while in gear test it did indicate severe backlash on the original diff. So I've tried 3 or 4 spares all bought from time to time from sellers who assured me they were "good". I've tried a 4.2, two 3.9 and one 3.7. The 4.2 had a small backlash but when driven had bearing groan. The 2 x 3.9s had backlash but I wouldn't describe it as small and the 3.7 (which is in at the moment) has a definite clunk decelerating downhill. All of them cause the gearbox noise on the overrun.
I've got 1 more 3.9 to try and a 3.5 I was keeping for posterity which the seller assured me (when I bought it about 4 years ago) was freshly reconditioned. When examined the sun and planet gears and the pin and thrust washes do look new and there is a definite lack of play in the whole thing so maybe it was reconditioned. I'm not sure of putting a 3.5 in because with a 3.7 the gearing is not very good especially as I have a 286 cam in it. Lots of changes into 3rd in 30mph areas and going up hills as the low down torque drops off as revs die.
Rob
MG Moneypit

SKF no's are 7303BECBP and 7205BECBP

These are face adjusted but 1mm inner radius.

Beringboys has stock.

https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/SKF--FAG/7205BECBP-SKF-Single-Row-Angular-Contact-Ball-Bearing-22430-p

https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/SKF--FAG/7303BECBP-SKF-Single-Row-Angular-Contact-Ball-Bearing-22185-p






anamnesis

Les

A useful video showing installation of FWB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xUKjLZjXrc

Good luck with getting this fixed in time for your trip. Sounds like some generous folk on this BBS offering suitable bearings.

As a side, did Meditech stop producing modified SKF bearings with a 2mm radius? I note the new old stock correct RHP bearings that were available from MGOC - https://www.mgocspares.co.uk/product/ghk1142q/hub-brg-kit-ft-midget - and presumably potentially still available at a higher price from Orinoco Bearings (https://www.orinocobearings.co.uk/)? Unless more NOS surface the new option is incorrect radius from many places or the tapered roller bearing option from a number of places e.g. https://www.ukmgparts.com/product/mid-midcat-7-submid19-front-suspension/hub-bearing-taper-kit-front-midget-ghk1142x

Was there an issue with the service life of the modified bearings?

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

However did we manage before u tube vid's? 😉

Note.
The spacers are nominally 1.5".

Actually, reading through the archives, and even reading a bmc bulletin, it seems spacers varied in length a little, and were matched to hubs. Ideally they should be kept as hub/spacer pairs.

anamnesis

An additional note.

Now we are free from the tyranny of mot wheel bearing inspections, a tiny bit of free play in fwbs, isn't really a big deal.

anamnesis

Thank you everyone, lots of useful info, all very much appreciated.
Hopefully will be all sorted Wednesday.

Rob, was your diff giving problems at Prescott?

My next job will be sorting steering rack, some free play at inner joint on passenger side. It’s ok for now but needs sorting at some point. Guess new rack will be best option. Current one was a recon some 23 years ago. Anyway that will be my winter job.

Once again, thanks for all your help. Will let you know how I get on with the bearings.

Les
Les Robinson

Early or late rack Les?
anamnesis

Anamnesis

Its early rack, ‘61 Mk2 Sprite.
Just seen the rack thread, thank you.
Les
Les Robinson

Les. the diff I had in at Prescott was the one I'm trying to replace with a better one to see if it did affect the Suzuki gearbox noise. I just fitted yet another 3.9 which is better than the one I had at Prescott. It's better but could be even better. I'm beginning to think it might be something else having tried all those diffs and not found a really good one.
Rob
MG Moneypit

Rob
Are you happy to go in Frogeye on Friday?

I should get bearings from Bob by lunchtime Wednesday so will strip hub tomorrow in readiness.

Les
Les Robinson

I had a noise on overrun (ribcase) turned out it was a worn spigot bearing.
Bob Beaumont

Les, yes going in Frog see you at the meeting place at 12.30

Bob B, it's got a new gearbox, flywheel, clutch and spigot bush. It's the Barrett conversion. I think I'm ironing out the bugs.
Rob
MG Moneypit

Ahead of getting bearings from Bob tomorrow, I have stripped the hub.
I have looked at both my old and the new Powertune bearings, if I support them on the inner race - outward facing side, then put a steel rule across both the inner and outer on what would be the inner face, then my old genuine RHP bearings both faces are inline. On the new Powertune bearings the inner race is noticeably further inwards which means when torqued up against the spacer it is overloading the bearings!
This can be resolved by shimming I guess, in this instance I estimate about 0.007” - 0.008” although it’s tricky to measure exactly.
Suppose looking back I should have checked all this before rebuilding but as they say hindsight is a wonderful thing!! But then again if the bearings were correct spec there wouldn’t be an issue.

Les
Les Robinson

Lap 7 or 8 thou inch off the inner face of the outer race Les.

Same effect as adding a 7,8 thou shim, and very easy to do on a flat surface using the right grade of wet/dry.

I know, because it's been done.

DIY face adjusting.

anamnesis

That’s a good idea.
Les Robinson

Fitted bearings supplied by Bob, wheel spins beautifully and freely and no play.
Feel much happier using genuine RHP face adjusted bearings rather than non genuine with shims, although will keep them as emergency spares.
So thank you all for your help.

Les
Les Robinson

Excellent news; have a good trip
M Wood

This thread was discussed between 27/05/2023 and 01/06/2023

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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