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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Full respray advice

Hi there everyone,

I am about ready to start the full respray of my midget. It has been a long time working to smooth the body out up until now but I am just looking for a bit of guidance as to how to approach it. Do I take off all the outer panels (doors, boot, bonnet, wings) and spray them separately so I can get a good finish on all under parts as well or should I have everything on the car and spray it together and then come back to the bits underneath...?

Anyone with any experience of a full respray on a midget here...? If you have any general tips as well please let me know.

Tha is in advance.

Simon
S Dodd

I did mine many moons ago, and removed bonnet, boot lid, doors, seats, even front wings and front valance, because I was doing work on it. I also had the complete screen off.

However, you can do it without removing anything. It depends how you feel, and what your objective is.

If it's to satisfy only yourself, then you decide.

if it's to satisfy a potential later sale, or to impress judges or peers, then they decide.

My tip, is to use paint. ;)
Lawrence Slater

don't do it in February like I did.

I did everything on the car, as it made sense to get the same colour everywhere. Though mine's still green in the door gaps and front valence...

put LOTS of paint on. Last coats with lots of thinners

I used celly, it worked well considering the temperature (about 6 degrees) and moisture (damp)

We did my midget and a mates spitfire at the same time. His paint did not survive the FROST on it overnight very well.

I did my sister's mini in the warm and it worked a lot better, but not as nice as some others on here. (looking at you Neil T :p)


Rob Armstrong

If you're removing the panels, be sure to spray them all at the same time- I once painted doors, boot, bonnet, and bodyshell on different days and they came out slightly different colours, either because of the weather/humidity or because I didn't stir the paint properly.

(I'm paying someone to do the Mini this time around...)
Growler

What paint do people use these days for home use? My local paint supplier swears 2 pack is safe?! Thinking of treating the car to a 20 year freshen up over cellulose
d cusworth

Don't use normal powder based "rapid sand" fillers. They absorb moisture from the atmosphere and encourage formation of rust on the underlying steel. Use a metal based filler.

Spray the first few coats with all the panels off, taking particular care to build up layers of protective paint on edges where rusting is prone to start.

Then fit the panels and do the final coats on the assembled car.
Guy W

Its the hardener in the 2pak which is dangerous, and its incredibly dangerous. Without a full carbon filter face mask I wouldn't consider it. And to give you some perspective, I'm the kinda guy who normally sticks 2 fingers up to health and safety.

I would spray with a good quality cellulose based paint. plenty of thinned layers, reducing the thinners as you go. There is lots of good advice on how to paint on the web - follow what this guy does and you will get a great finish. He also has videos on gun choice and prepwork - which is by far the most important part of your paint job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R2T6EeAfqk
C L Carter

"My local paint supplier swears 2 pack is safe?!" That's cos he can't sell you celly! or it's water based and needs an oven to dry it off.

Home use (first paint job) stick with cellulose and try to do it when it's warm. That gives me a very short window up here... I missed it last week for this year :0(
I get mine from www.jawel.co.uk. They do a "ready for use" range which is probably 50/50 paint and thinners but check before you buy. Buy enough to have some touch up left over on the shelf. 2.5ltrs (5ltrs RTU) should see you done with a bit to spare.

MGmike
M McAndrew

MGmike is right. Cellulose definitely and ideally at 15 degrees under cover and with some extraction. So a car port would better than a garage and that's better than doing it fully out in the open. I'm prepping the rear shroud and wings on the Frogeye - missed last week to paint which would have been best, and now waiting to see if this Saturday will be OK for temperature and humidity (also hoping the farmer doesn't decide to combine the field across the road) A full paint job would be a car stripped to a shell - I guess you're not doing that - but I'd keep the doors, bonnet and bootlid hung so the gapping is already sorted and there's no risk of damage when you put them back on. Colour coat all the shuts and edges first, sill drop flange,and the underneath surfaces including the door bottoms. Before you do much more you need to read something like 'How to paint Classic Cars' which at least outlines the things to do and what to avoid, and practice on sheets of hardboard or scrap panels so you get to know your gun, and find out which settings make for the best finish.
F Pollock

M. I understand the rest, '2.5ltrs (5ltrs RTU)'

RTU ?
Dave Squire - Notts

Ready to use?
Malcolm Le Chevalier

Yes Malcolm, must be and makes sense. (I'm just crap at these abbreviations appart from SWWBO) Thanks.
Dave Squire - Notts

So Dave, what is SWWBO ?
Guy W

My advice, from previous experience, is to allow a good professional to do it!

Spray painting is an artform and it takes much practice and decent (high cost) equipment to get it right. I guess you could do all the prep work before top coat to minimize costs.

In the end, although the cost of paying someone else to do it may be higher, a decent body shop should provide a far better quality of finish than most us could ever hope to achieve.
Mark O

So Dave, what is SWWBO ?

She who "would" be obeyed? ---- If you didn't ignore her that is. :)
Lawrence Slater

Ignorance is Bliss, just don't tell her, she's small and tough. Too many years of me.
And at the moment she's on my side to get the car finished so tally ho........o.
Dave Squire - Notts

I have found all this paint advice is good by the way so thanks you guys from me.
Dave Squire - Notts

Or SWWSWO ?

She Who Wishes She Was Obeyed ?

;-)
Guy W

I admire your bravery :)

even if though she'll never see what you've put :)
Nigel Atkins

I like the approach Guy, and I like to think I am smart enough to let her think she is obeyed.
However this double thinkin stuff is doin me yed in *&%8£??? (reversion to childhood yam yam talk comin on methinks) and as she does the books its difficult to hide stuff. (I didn't say that nod nod wink wink).

Been with the old girl too many years to mess up now so I say YES! anyway begginin to ramble, must work. ttfn.

Dave
Dave Squire - Notts

Best to get too much paint than not enough. The extra can be put away for the future so you'll have a perfect colour match. And it's definitely worth getting and experienced painter to do the spraying as the top coat is what all your work will be judged on.
And definitely all removable panels off.
cheers
Mike
M H Allen

I'd ignore what others have said about getting an experienced painter until you see what you're capable of producing finish wise. It's not as cheap as it used to be , when cellulose was common, to get practice paint by going down the local factor and asking for a can of cock-up that they had mixed wrong and were happy to flog cheap. I just know that I've never been a pro painter but have had comments from ones that were about the quality of my paint finish straight from the gun. Basically don't be shy and put it on too light or you'll get horrible orange peel which you'll have to flat and polish. Get the balance right from the gun and you can get a very good finish, worse case with a solid colour you get runs or curtains if to heavy and they'll have to be seen to after drying, for metallics either get it right or a pro.
David Billington

i sprayed my car myself after thinking if i do the underbonnet, i can stick the engine in and free up some garage space.

but its very satisfying to do, and you learn a new skill !

As others have said two pack is dangerous, water based means you really need a booth and as cellulose is readily available and good value to why not give it a try, when you order be sure to specify top coat thinners, there is a difference between primer quality thinners and that for top coat !

I took the view that the more paint i got on the car the better protected it would be, plus you will have plenty to flat and polish back, and you WILL need to flat and polish. I would go so far and suggest that you also invest in a good rotary polisher, because with the correct compounds and polish and pads you will be amazed at how good a finish you can get provided that you are patient.

If you are new to spraying (and i am only self taught so no expert) start with leaning off the paint flow valve on the gun (normally by turning it inwards towards the body) this will reduce the flow giving you a dust coat, a few more of these will build up a good basis for then winding out the paint flow giving you a wetter coat. This is where you should get to see a shine in the paint. . .again take your time and i find its a good idea to have something else to do whilst the paint dries. . .do not be tempted to put coat after coat on without allowing the previous coat to go off.

in an ideal world the warmer the better will be the best conditions for spraying, but care should also be taken in the set up of not only the gun but the compressor to. I assume you have one ? by care i refer to draining the tank before you start, and after you have finished, this reduces greatly the amount of water in the air you are sending to the gun via the hose hopefully minimising the 'fish eye' effect which is a pain to get rid of. . .also do not use silicone spray WD40 etc in the same environment as where you will be spraying it gives the same fish eye problem.

an inline water trap will take care of this but again its a question of what sort of standard you will be hoping to acheive.

tack cloths or panel wipe are also a good investment, the latter is around £15 for 5 litres and when wiped over the panels evaporates and takes any oil from your hands off as well as any dust or crap that settles, you can apply this with kitchen towel or a similar clean cloth.

i could go on !

I found the spraying to be the most rewarding part of the build, and i now get asked to do the odd door, boot etc for friends. . .i am not an expert by any sense, but i would encourage anyone to give it a try, it is a skill for sure, but when worth trying to learn in my opinion.


any questions message me and i will try to help mrpbentley@btinternet.com
p bentley

this is the almost finshed car. . .not amazing for sure, but its what i feel you can acheive with a bit of patience . . .after all i did !!


p bentley

Thats a lovely description Mr Bentley. Your strategy so fits with my old dads way of painting (he was a painter and decorator from the late 20s on to the early 80's) its great to read. Spot on. Build up a base to fix the top coat to and fettle it down if needsbe. You have reinforced my thoughts and I will certainly be doing my own when the time comes.

Thanks for the confirmation and motivation. Dave
Dave Squire - Notts

She Who Thinks She Must.........

I cant help with painting advice except to add another word for Jawel.

I'm lucky in that I have a local dealer, which was handy when he mixed me a tin of BRG which wasn't!. :(

AT least they didn't try to BS me about the (un)availability of cellulose paint.
Bill1

Guy says "Don't use normal powder based "rapid sand" fillers. They absorb moisture from the atmosphere and encourage formation of rust on the underlying steel."
The panel shops use two grades of filler - a primary one, then an easy sanding finish filler that mostly just fills any sanding marks on the underlying filler. It doesn't end up in contact with bare metal. It's supplied as a creamy paste and goes on smooth as butter.
A good tip I picked up is to store your tin of bog upside down, then a few weeks before you need to use it again turn it right way up. The bog separates over time (oil on top, heavy solids on the bottom) and this gives it a chance to remix before use. Shelf life is limited to about 12/12.
M H Allen

Mike,
I wasn't aware that there are 2 grades of filler to be used in the way you describe. I was advising against the use of a normal polyester or talc based filler. I made the mistake of using this and with damp weather, and worse, using wet sanding which allowed the filler to absorb moisture. I guess it is fine if used over a sealed surface and when applied, dry sanded and speedily finished in a professional drying booth. But not suitable for a prolonged DIY approach in the damp UK atmosphere.
Guy W

Have just about finished a complete respray using cellulose on a sebring sprite so mixed fibreglass/metal

Take off doors and bonnet. strip body to bare metal.
Used 'red oxide' to prime the metal. used Etch primer to prime the fibre glass.

Several coats of U pol filler primer to prime. flatted, stoppered, filled and refilled until smooth. using standard thinners.

4 coats of coloured cellulose. Using Anti-Bloom thinners.
flatted again

then 1 or 2 coats of top coat colour using Top Coat thinners.

Get a good book on spraying to be honest. Reading through at least once to get an idea of the prep work front to back and in what order to spray panels in order to keep a wet edge and not end up spraying back onto dry edges etc is a really good idea. Unfortunately to type all the information here that you need would be several thousand words in my opinion.

In regards to bits you don't see doing first or last. Do them first. so

underneath of body.
Inside of bonnet.
Engine bay.
Inside of car.
Inside of doors.

Outside of car.
Bolt back on doors and bonnet for panel fit (before you flat the 4 coats of colour done with anti bloom thinners) for fit. Then flat. Remask. Do top coat(s).
D Paul

This thread was discussed between 14/08/2012 and 17/08/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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