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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Getting side of bodyshell flat

Hi, the attached picture is looking vertically down the gap between offside rear wing (left) and door (right) on my Frogeye restoration. Ignore the apparently wide gap towards the top and dint, the camera is exagerrating these.


W Bretherton

Keep losing text, so here goes again:

You will notice that both wing and door bow in, maybe 5mm at worst top to bottom. So, how best to correct this? I assume if left, it will show badly when painted? So, filler? Easiest for me but it may chip off on the edge? More extensive panel beating? I'm a novice at that so might make a complete mess.
All suggestions much appreciated (apart from "give up now"!
Bill
W Bretherton

I'm going to hazard a guess that there is a bunch of filler in those panels.
Trevor Jessie

No filler. I should have said I've just welded the wing on which was 100% steel and so is the door (I've had both paint stripped and media blasted). Currently finished in etch primer.
W Bretherton

You are correct that body filler would just chip off. You can add metal to create an edge and use body filler to blend back to the plane of the door/wing.
Trevor Jessie

Is the wing just tacked on?
If so remove to aid fetling of the panel to get a sharper corner.

This is a problem most present in heritage shells.
I think it has something to do with the pressing dies wearing.

The proper fix is with a hammer and dolly.
And as a novice you can pick it up quick enough.
Practice on shome scrap.

Other option is filler, use the right type of filler and risk of chipping will be minimal.
O K

Trevor, do you mean add metal with welder?

O K, It's welded on, I should have checked it more carefully first I suppose as I can't get behind it now. May have to use weld plus filler. I'd try lead loading but think it would just fall off. I could possibly try fibreglass resin but difficult to hold in position.

This must be a common problem with older panels (door is original, wing was unused old stock)
W Bretherton

Bill,

Is the new wing an original or a replica? A mate has a frogeye and it seems to have an original rear wing and a later replacement which is not as deep and we're pretty sure is hand made so that might explain your fitting issues. BTW if you do the lead loading right you shouldn't have any issues with it falling off.
David Billington

I'd weld some plate lugs to the edge and pull the edge out square with a slide hammer and then grind the plates off and finish off with a thin layer of filler
If you took it to a bodyshop, they have little posts that weld on with a spot welder then same again ,pull it out and grind them off.--wouldn't take long/cost much to do the basic pull out job and then you could finish it off yourself
willy
William Revit

I lead loaded all the shuts on my Frogeye 30 years ago to fix the profile and gapping and they're still pretty good today. Properly tinned nothing should fall off, and of course you can correct any taper which you often get on Frogeye doors.
f pollock

Thanks all, some good ideas suggested. With the lead loading David / F pollock, I meant it would fall off as I was trying to do it in the vertical plane as I lack experience, but the idea appeals to me. I think the wing is a replica, was bought several years ago by my brother, but he can't remember where! It was difficult to align and is out on the rear light plinths.

Willy, I don't really want to give it any more heat as I'm afraid of panel warpage but it's a good suggestion.

Bill
W Bretherton

There are quite a few lead loading tutorials on YouTube. Warping isn't an issue as you use a soft propane flame and essentially bodge it on before smoothing it out with a paddle. I did the door to wing joint as a single surface and then cut and filed the door gaps. You still end up using a little skim of polyester filler, but most of this is blocked off prior to the guide coat. If you are out on the light plinths,lead is arguably a better candidate than a adding a thickness of polyester filler.
f pollock

I did some lead work last year, really just as an experiment to see how l got on as there is some sort of mystique about how skilled a job it is. In fact l found it very easy, using just a gas bottle propane torch an a lead stick. The key seems to be apply it to clean bright steel which you then prepare by painting and then melting a mixture of flux and tin, before then adding the lead stick. Get the temp right and it turns to a sort of putty consistency which you spread around with a bit of wood baton. When hardened you can find tune the shape with a rasp and then skim with bodyfiller to give a base for fine preparation for the paint.
GuyW

Limit on text seems to be operating !?

Be wary of lead dust and fumes at the various stages of the process. Suitable mask is essential
GuyW

Hi Bill,
James Paul

Let's try again...

http://1965mgmidgetrestoration.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/a-post-repair-continued.html

I had similar issues, ended up mig welding in new metal to rebuild corners and edges and grinding them all true.

took ages, but worth it!

Let me know if I can help further.

James
James Paul

f pollock/ Guy, you've convinced me to try lead loading,. I've soldered a fair bit so at least I've got the feel of using solder, both with an iron and a torch. Although I do think the difference between getting it right and making a mess is slight.
W Bretherton

It helps to use the right tin lead alloy. There's a chart here http://www.mtarr.co.uk/courses/topics/0128_sm/index.html that gives the varying properties with composition. For body filling you want a nice big pasty range so it can be worked and doesn't transition from fully solid to fully liquid too quickly.
David Billington

James / David, thanks for the links. Great resources.
W Bretherton

This thread was discussed between 26/06/2017 and 27/06/2017

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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