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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - getting starter to spin faster!

Hey folks,

Long time no post, hope you are all well?

Been working hard trying to get my engine to fire. Have oil pressure, have sparks, timing OK and have fuel at the carb.

I think it is refusing to fire because the starter isn't spinning things fast enough. It sounds really slow to turn over compared to videos on YouTube. I *think* it is because it is just a bit tight after a full rebuild, does this sound right? And what can I do to help things out?

I have a small battery booster which I am charging up now, but suspect it will need more.

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

Just to clarify...

You do have spark at the plug... you have seen the blue spark, have you tried shooting a 3-5second burst of starter spray into the carbs, did that make any pops

What im getting.at these cars dont need to be spot on to fire up.. they just have to be in the bal park, so with the starter moving slowly, it should still make a few pops at the very least

I cant say it enough... 1342, its so easy to belive you have it and you dont

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Malc

It just occured to me... was it you that had that make shift ground wire, that was NOT factory orginal and you where going to throw it away because it was redundant

If that was you... thats where id start... dig out that old wire reinstall it exactly as was and see what happens...they was a reason the PO installed it, and it wasnt for the cool factor of having 2 engine grounds

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

jumpstart it from a car with engine running at 2000 rpm.
David Smith

Theres to many of you french guys to keep track of... now I see the value of the NSA....hahaha

To beat nigel to the punch, definatly make sure the battery iss fully charged

Id also look at the inside of the cables for the white mint green powder ... that will knock down some battrey juice electric getting to where it needs to go, with the battry fully charged take it to a chain auto parts store, for a free test...takes about 10 minutes... (actually more like 2 minutes, but they move very slow, hoping you walk around the store and find stuff you must have today)

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Spark looked quite orange to me, not blue... Is that odd?! I thought a spark was a spark... Now thinking not!
M Le Chevalier

Orange is better then clear...

But bright electric blue/white with a nice little cracking exploding sound is the best

But I have also ran alot of stuff off of orange and even yellow

Why is it orange?? ...a # of little reasons, loose wires, out of adjustment, worn ignition parts, bad grounds ect ect.... but it should still fire on orange spark

Did you try some starter spray ,(also called either) in the throat of the carb??

Are you the person with the extra ground wire several weeks back???

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Yeah, I was the random earth strap guy, prop. Will investigate that too.
M Le Chevalier

Malc

That extra ground strap, is exactly were id start, you situation just reiks of a grounding issue

for what ever reason the car probably isnt grounding very well and the PO found this to be the solution
And to be honest ive got not just one extra ground wire but several myself because of my engine bay rhino linner and lots of engine powder coat paint

If you already disposed of the aftermarket ground strap, you can always use some thick gauge insulated wire and some wire connections to creat the ground

My guess is the choke cable is actting as your engine ground....after several minutes cranking that cable may become hot

Anyway... re hook up that ground wire... make sure its clean and a good tight connection and let us know what happens

It may even turn your orange spark into a bright blue /white spark

I wouldnt mess with any other adjustments till the ground wire is sorted

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Hi Malcolm,

As your car was in bits when you got it just checking you have the correct coil. The 1500 needs the ballista type to have more oomph at start up methinks. (Guy explained it to me a couple of years ago).

Never had to check the coil itself as I thought mine was wired strangely to start with. However mine was wired as it should be I just didn't understand. However its different to the A series and has more wires. So if this is the case and you have the wrong coil the next question could be which wiring diagram are you using?

If the coil and wires are correct take off air filters and use easy start (lots of). Use your good looking assistant to crank etc. while you keep pumping the throttle and feeding the carbs (its at this point a push starter under the bonnet helps a lot for us lonesome car types).

Hope this helps a bit. Dave
Dave Squire

Malcolm,

I've done some of this dance already, added extra earth cables, one from the starter bolt to earth, extra engine block to earth, if your timing is too advanced you'll struggle to crank, but in the end, see my CCA/£ post, a bigger newer battery just spins the engine over real quick and the car snaps into life.

What size battery do you have in CCA ? - my old battery was 360CCA, the new one is 480CCA on a standard compression 1275cc.

Malc

Malc Gilliver

OK, I have had a chance to digest this a bit further and also spoken to an electrical engineer at work who spent many years wiring up land rovers in the RAF.

I think the issues are two fold. 1. Lazy starter, 2. weak spark. (3. Weak battery caused by trying to start whilst we have issues 1 and 2!)

Lazy starter due to bad earth. Weak spark due to bad earth and starter taking all the juice from the battery. Sound plausible?

Been out at lunch and have some easy start and a new earth cable. Jump starter is also charging up at home.

Also for completeness and to answer others questions:

Coil is correct type.
Dizzy is new electronic module.
Battery is new, but I guess taken a bit of abuse with non-starting.

Will also clean up all the contacts and things tonight for good measure.

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

Malcolm,

A couple things to try:
If you think the starter is robbing the system of enough elec to start, use jumper wires and an extra batt to feed only the coil.

Or, if you have brakes, tow it to start. Occasionally a fresh rebuild is stubborn and needs to be towed.

Charley
C R Huff

A possibly quick way of proving if it is a poor engine earth causing your problem is to test using one jumper cable.

Clip one end of it to the EARTH connection of the battery, and the other end, first just brush it on a substantial part of the engine (eg a head nut - but not anywhere near the carbs!) if no sparks then it is safe to go ahead and clip it onto that point. Now try the starter. Is it faster? if it is then you need a better earth strap to the engine.

Jim
J Smith

Wow malc

360cca ???

Here we call those lawn mower battrys, I bet you did have a time trying to start the car

Id think that would have to be close to the bear minume

Glad you got it sorted

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

IT LIVES! WOOOOOOOO!

See my other post in general, not really a battery issue at all....!

Malc.
M Le Chevalier

This thread was discussed between 08/07/2014 and 09/07/2014

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