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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Half shaft removal

I have oil leaks on both rear hubs discovered during a rear brake overhaul The car is a Mark 3, 1275 RWA midget with Rostyles

I have replacement gaskets and 'O' rings ready together with some RTV instant gasket if necessary but have been attempting to remove the half shafts without success.

I have drained the axle of oil and taken out the single shaft flange retaining screw in the hub but cant get the half shaft out.

How is this done? Is there a special tool or puller or is there some way to cobble together a pulling arrangement?
Andy Davies

It's probably stuck with some instant gasket or maybe some corrosion around the wheel studs.

Try a soft mallet from behind if you can or tap it gently with a broad bladed screwdriver between the halfshaft and the hub. Don't overdo it though and damage the hub face.

It should come away at that.

A
Andrew McGee

As Andy says, there's no magic to it. It should just lift & separate!

Is it leaking from the flange or at the back, where the oil seal is?
Dave O'Neill2

They usually fall out! If you are sure there is no sealant holding them in then I guess it could be the diff end. My concern then would be whether the shafts have been overloaded and started to twist within the diff and jammed them in. If they are going to fail, it's the diff end they seem to go.
As you can't get at the diff end, you are going to have to force it from the outer end.
G Williams (Graeme)

<< If they are going to fail, it's the diff end they seem to go>>

They can also snap the outer end off with extreme cornering and worn or poor quality bearings. No, don't go there!
Dave O'Neill2

Just to add my two-pennys worth - no need to drain the axle if you jack up one side at a time (the oil runs to the other end). The half-shaft may be trapped by the wheel studs if they have become bent inwards though over tightening. This can happen with Rostyle wheels which you say you have. Otherwise agree with all predeeding comments. My half-shafts just pulled out easily.
Chris H (1970 Midget 1275)

There are 4 sections of the half-shaft flanges exposed around the hub. Just get a drift and a hammer and hit them there. It's a bit awkward to get the angle, but it can be done. I've never used sealant, but mine have stuck from time to time, - even without bent studs. But bent studs will certainly make it more difficult, so if they are, knock those through first and buy some new ones.


Lawrence Slater

It's worth changing the hub seals while you have the half shafts out. don't forget to change the tab washer as well if you do. The parts are less than a tenner.
Pete Ottewell

I wouldn't change the hub oil-seal unless it's leaking. It's not an easy seal to extract.
Lawrence Slater

Yes, but you can guarantee that you go to the trouble of replacing the gasket and o ring, to find that shortly after the hub seal goes. I'm one for not doing jobs twice. If you going to the trouble anyway, for a few pounds It's worth doing. It's up to you of course.
Pete Ottewell

When was the last time you changed your rear hub oil-seal Pete?
Lawrence Slater

Last year....
Pete Ottewell

tab washers are usually OK to re-use; many of them have never been touched since new, the hub bearings and seals seem to last forever. As the cousins say 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'
David Smith

And Pete, you had to remove the bearing to get the oil seal out, which because it doesn't have drift pockets to facilitate this, means hitting the bearing, which probably damages it. Just to change an oil seal that isn't leaking?

Like I said, I'd wait until it is. Pulling a h/shaft, even if it's a bit stuck, is only a 15 minute job, and you can re-use the rubber o-ring and paper gasket more than once too.
Lawrence Slater

No I didn't hit the bearing, what do you think I am a neanderthal. That may be the way you treat bearings Lawrence, but I have worked in engineering for 30+ years, so have a little more respect. Of course your right as you always are, as I said it's up to you
Pete Ottewell

So how did you get your bearing out Pete? Since You can't grip the outer race to pull it, and pulling on the centre won't do the bearing much good either?
Lawrence Slater

I'm with Pete, change the oil seal while you have the half shafts out. They may last a long time, but unless you know when they were last changed they'd go eventually.

I changed mine last week. Bearings are easy to remove. Get a large socket, push through rear of hub then gently squeeze in a vice. Came out like a dream
Gus

That's exactly how I did it Gus, thank you.
Pete Ottewell

You can't push on the outer race, the bit of metal actually in contact with the hub. You can only push or hit on the centre. This means you may be damaging the otherwise perfectly good bearing.

What's the point of changing a NON leaking oil seal, if it means having to replace a good bearing? I assume you are replacing the bearing? After all it's only £9.24 plus postage for a kit. In which case, how is it "neanderthal" to hammer out a bearing, you are going to replace anyway? But if you are re-installing the "worn" bearing, how do you know how long it's going to last?

It's pretty obvious that without drift pockets in the hub, it was intended that the rear hub bearing is removed and replaced with a new one, and an oil seal to boot.

I thought the point (Pete) was to save on doing jobs twice. So I assume you do replace the bearing, --- just in case.

I really can't see the logic. Yes it's cheap. But it's also very easy -- much easier -- to pull the half-shafts, and replace the o-ring and paper gasket, and not disturb a perfectly good oil seal and hub bearing, that will probably last for years.

But hey-ho, your an engineer, so I guess you know best. ;) lol.
Lawrence Slater

Calm down dear, as Gus say's the bearing comes out of the hub fairly easily. As I said it's up to you, I'm not bothered it's your car. Nobody has to take my advise. I don't know why you feel the need to go on these personal crusades about everything Lawrence, life's too short to raise your blood pressure over something so trivial. It's me this time, suppose it makes a change from arguing with Nigel.
Pete Ottewell

All I said was Pete, "I wouldn't change the hub oil-seal unless it's leaking. It's not an easy seal to extract." Your repsonse illustrates that you are the one on a personal crusade. Calm down my love, it's bad for your temprament :).
Lawrence Slater

I've always found the hub oil seal quite easy to remove using a large screw driver as a lever after all it's being replaced so it doesn't matter if it gets damaged.
David Billington

Whatever.....
Pete Ottewell

Well yes, I agree. 'Not easy' is the wrong phrase to use. Nothing on Spridgets is that difficult, just time consuming. What I should have said is not that quick, because you can't change the oil-seal, without first removing the bearing. And the oil-seal, having been in there a long time often has to be destroyed to remove it. Not that it matters because you are goling to replace it.

But my point is, if all you are having a problem with is a leaky o-ring on the half-shaft, why go to the bother of changing the hub oil seal, that isn't leaking and isn't likely to leak for a good long time, or replacing the hub bearing that also won't need replacing for a good long time?

Here's a pic of the last rear hub oil-seal I changed on my Sprite -- it was leaking, and was probably the original in the hub. It took a while to remove it, as if it had been glued in place. It took a lot more destruction to finally remove it.

If I had merely been getting rid of the leaky half-shaft o-ring, 15 min job, and decided to change the non- leaking hub oil-seal just for the sake of it, I'd have been a bit fed up having to spend an extra hour on a 15 min job.

But hey ho, we all say things here that others are free to ignore, and frequently do. lol




Lawrence Slater

When did they change from the old felt seals to the rubber/ neoprene or whatever they now are? I think the felt ones are better, they don't result in a scored groove around the mating surface.
Guy W

Good question Guy. I can remember buying new felt oil-seals for various cars/purposes, but can't remember when they became plastic coated. And now you've said that, I realise the oil seal in my picture can't have been (unlikely anyway )the original, because I'm sure in 1966, they would still have been using felts and not plastic. But having owned the car for so long, I've forgotten everything that's been done to it over the years.

In fact thinking on, the Midget I've got is a '73, and I've just had the front hubs apart on that, and one side has a felt oil-seal in it; --- still NOT leaking after all this time. So I've left it there.
Lawrence Slater

Yep, that is what I was getting at, when I saw your photo.
My '71 has felt seals at the back
Guy W

I've dismantled quite a few axles over the years and I don't remember seeing any felt seals in the hubs. Many of them have never been apart - the 'factory' fitted tab washer bend is quite obvious, compared with most DIY efforts.

I have seen felt seals on front hubs. I have even had new replacement felt seals.

With regard to oil leaks on rear hubs, they generally seem to be due to worn oil seals, rather than o-rings/gaskets, in my experience.
Dave O'Neill2

If that's right Dave, then my rear seal could be original after all. So when did plastic coated seals come in? Just trivial interest you understand. :)
Lawrence Slater

My rear ones are definitely felt. They were on it when I got the car although with 17 previous owners (by 1989) who is to say whether even the axle was original?!
Guy W

Maybe felt was a deluxe option Guy. ;)
Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 01/05/2013 and 04/05/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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