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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Half shaft removal

So driving back from getting petrol before heading to Silverstone tomorrow, I got a big clunk from the back end.

Got the car recovered home but after several hours I still can't get the offside shaft out (nearside just pulls out as it should)

Any ideas? Car is a '77 1500
Ian Beningfield

Have you got anything resembling a slide hammer you can fit to the shaft to pull out or any sort of puller?
Daniel Stapleton

I remember having dreadful problems with my Minor's broken half shaft and didn't like prising against the other part of the hub, which seemed to be the only option. I can't remember how I did it in the end, sorry!

I don't know if this is feasible but, on the assumption that the half shaft is broken, and therefore scrap, has anyone tried welding a stud or loop of some description on the end face of the shaft so that it can be gripped and pulled or hammered to free it?

Colin

Colin Mee

Ian, not tried this myself, but I understand that a length of 10mm diameter bar, poked in from the opposite side, will slip past the cross pin in the diff. Then a "light tap with a heavy hammer" on the end should drift the sticking half shaft out.

The reason they stick is that the splines get twisted and burred over enough to make the halfshaft bind in the diff.
Guy Weller

unfortunately, the "broomstick from the other side" only works with welded diffs (the spider gear shaft blocks any access thru there for normal diffs)


If your halfshaft is stuck, and if you don't have access to a slide hammer, then a worthy substitute is to attach the brake drum backwards and use a soft faced hammer to pound on it to "pull" it out.



Norm

Norm Kerr

Norm...

Sorta like removing a stuck rear brame shoe... put on some old lugs and that tap on them with a hammer for awhile???

If so... its worth a try

Wont you still have to pull the pumpkin, to get all the metal shavings out... or just use a magnet on a stick to get out the big stuff then a large mag on the bottom of the diff to collect all the small shards untill your back from silverstone

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Norm

How do you attach the brake drum to the halfshaft?
Dave O'Neill 2

you'd have to remove the hub nut then use the wheel studs to attach the halfshaft. means the hub comes off at the same time.
graeme jackson

But...in order to remove the hub nut, you first need to remove the halfshaft!
Dave O'Neill 2

Cut the flange off the hs then you can remove the hub just to give yourself more working space then see if wiggling the remaining shaft loosens it. If not then you could try drill and tap a hole in the shaft and use a piece of bar and more screws to jack it out.
Not a five minute job....and not easy.
Have you asked the guys on the motor sports forum? They would have most experiance of this I would expect
Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

Guy,

The cross pin is 9/16" diameter and the half shaft 1" so the gap either side is 7/32", 10mm won't clear. Even at 7/32" that'll hit the sun gear splines as 1" is the shaft OD, now if the half shaft extended inwards a bit to allow tapping the face 7/32" is likely to bow with the impact. Might be worth a try with a bit of 7/32" or 6mm, not much to lose.
David Billington

Thanks David. I did say I had never tried it! I was relaying a method that I had read of which I thought might be helpful. I did wonder about the cross shaft. I am sure that your sums are correct regarding the sizes of the obstructing shaft. But thinking about it, the "prodding rod" doesn't have to be exactly central either in the axle tube or at the point where it pushes up against the end of the other half shaft. Not con-centric.

So maybe there is just enough clearance to give it a go. I certainly would, though maybe with something a bit thinner than the 10mm I quoted. As you say, there would be a trade-off between prod-rod diameter and the tendency for it to bow.
Guy Weller

I wonder if you couldnt put the car next to a tree or pole anchored into the ground

Then bolt a chain to one lug nut then around the tree and back to another lug nut then place a bottle jack between the tree and chain and (( jack it off....haha))

That may not be pretty, but if you have an oppertunity to say (( Jacking it off ))...hahaha,

you have to take advantage and capitalize on that.

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget


Thanks for the suggestions

Trying to lever the shaft out just resulted in shifting the hub back half an inch. I've bolted some sections of angle iron onto the flange to get some purchase

No joy, neither did a 10lb slide hammer.

I'm running out of time now so I think I'm going to head up to silverstone sans midget then get back on it next week.



Ian Beningfield

Can you get a 3 legged puller on the half-shaft? If you can, put a bar across two opposing wheel studs (a tyre iron is good) to bear onto when jacking the puller up.

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

Ideally, you'd need nuts on the wheelstuds so that you don't push them out of the hub
Dave O'Neill 2

then Rob's idea wouldn't work as the wheelnuts would lock the hub and halfshaft together.
graeme jackson

Can you lock the diff and then, using the studs and a bar, give the half-shaft a bit of back-and-forth rotation?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Question 1) have your removed the screw that holds the half shaft to the hub?


Question 2) On a wire wheel rear axle, the 4 nuts can be removed (and the screw) and then the wheel can be re-attached in order to hammer on to pull the half shaft out. On a steel wheel rear axle, are the wheel studs through the hub? Bummer.


Rob's idea of a 3 leg puller will work if you can grip it around the edges and then pull it with a slide hammer.


Norm
Norm Kerr

""Question 1) have your removed the screw that holds the half shaft to the hub?""

Now NORM,

You know we all thought that, but just saying it publically is considard very crude, lewd and rude.

Hahaha

Can I get an amen from the room

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Ian,

If as you say you now have a half inch gap between the hub and halfshaft flange I would take out a couple of studs, if possible. and put a couple of bolts in from the inside with a nut between the hub and halfshaft flange. With a spanner on the nut you can then wind the bolts up to jack the halfshaft out (hopefully), I would do this on two diametrically opposite stud holes and alternate the jacking action between the two.
David Billington

I'd be very interested to see a pic of the end of the half-shaft when it comes out. I remember my late brother-in-law Mike spending a whole day trying to remove the half-shaft from a Jag MK 2 using all manner of large pullers. In the end he gave up and phoned up Jim Snell (Snell's Coaches in Devon and mad Jag/hotrod fan in the 1980s) who (so Mike said, though it might not be true) advised the centre of the shaft to be whacked really hard with a sledge hammer. In trepidation he did it and it worked - a puller was then put on and it was fine. But the end of the shaft looked perfect apparently.
Nick Nakorn

Nick,

That's how you remove the half shafts from the drive axels on semi trucks. And, it takes a good whack with something like an 8 lb sledge. It is a little intimidating because you have to hit the center and not the circle of studs around the center. Best to have the nuts loose on the studs partly to protect them and partly because the axel might fly across the parking lot when it pops out.

Charley
C R Huff

It seems like hitting the end of the half shaft with a sledge hammer would put the hub bearings at risk of being damaged, since that is what will be taking all of that load.

On a giant truck suspension it probably laughs at the kind of input you could make with a sledge hammer, but I wonder if our much smaller A-30 rear axles could shrug off a hit like that?

Just wondering.

Our half shafts are "floating" on the inboard side: they have no retention of any kind, there, just splines to transmit rotational force, so hitting the end will just push the hub bearing together.
On the other hand, if a half shaft is stuck, then that floating end must be twisted enough to jam it into those splines, so at that point, maybe hitting it will help, somehow, to get them apart, maybe?

My bet is the Jag and the semi-truck axles have a retaining ring on the inboard side, and hitting it might help knock it loose from hits groove to help pulling out out?
(I am picturing a mini front half shaft and how the CV joints are attached with that little wire "spring" ring on the shaft that sometimes gets rusted in place and takes a hell of a whack to get apart)

Norm

Norm Kerr

Maybe a silly question, but if it isn't sheared off (if it was it would pull out, leaving the damaged stub bit inside) then why the need to remove it?
Guy Weller

Guy, it may or may not be sheared at the moment, but I can assure you that sometimes when a halfshaft breaks it almost explodes at the break and mushrooms out as a result so you get exactly this problem! Cut a hole in the axle casing, cut through half shaft immediately on the outside of the carrier bearing, then remove diff, strip and drive out remnants of halfshaft. And remove the bulk of the halfshaft in the usual way.
Paul Walbran

Thanks paul

Ive seen this thread several times over the years, but I never understood what holds them into place... the mushroom effect makes good sence

Thanks

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Norm,

I should have made it clear that I was not endorsing the sledge hammer for a Spridget. I only meant to say that the sledge is the norm for some equipment. In the case of the semi drive axel, it is not an inboard retaining ring that must be overcome. There are 10 or so studs that the half shaft fits over, and on each stud is placed a split cone that centers the shaft when the nuts are tightened. The cones jam into the tapers, so getting it off is like getting 10 tie rod ends out of their tapers simultaneously.

And, you are of course right about how robust the truck system is. The bearings on the truck axel are approaching the diameter of the brake drums on the Spridget.

Charley
C R Huff

Charley, I agree - I'd never use such methods on a small car. I even use a separator for track-rod ends even though I know the 'hit the steering arm hard on the side' method works.

Ian, any joy?
Nick Nakorn

I've just fitted two new competition shafts and thinking about this thread I tapped out the two holes on the flange M8 so I can use some screws to help me get them off if I need to.
Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

Ian: did you manage it?
Graeme W

This thread was discussed between 19/06/2014 and 07/07/2014

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