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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Handbrake problem

I have a 1970 midget which I rebuilt onto a heritage chassis a long time ago. I have found that the handbrake cable (Moss code GVC1019) is too long, even taking the adjustment on the balance lever into account.
Is it possible to get the cable reduced in length - if so, any recommendations on who to approach.
Alternatively, it was suggested to me by a fellow member that I should fit the handbrake cable system from a later 1500, which in his opinion is a better system anyway. I have sent emails to both Moss and Leacy MG on this subject, but have not received any reply. I wondered if the 1500 system for a wire wheel car would be shorter, which I assume it is, but clearly I need to find out by how much. I probably need to reduce the cable length by 2 cms.
Finally, will my axle (steel wheel) accept the 1500 system, with the strange looking box section on the diagram in the catalogue fixing in the same place as the existing balance lever.
Geoff Mears

IIRC the w/wheel versions are only shorter in the rod / rods between the backplates, not the cable itself. Is there not also some adjustment possible at the back of the tunnel when first installing it?
David Smith

I fitted the 1500 system to my 1275, much simpler, and stronger, I can now park on the drive with the engine running, without the car rolling away.

Dave


Dave Barrow

David, As I am aware the back axle is shorter on a car with wire wheels. The Moss catalogue shows a different number for the handbrake, and (this is where I may be totally wrong) it looks to me as though there are no rods, just cable between the wheels. So my thought is that the cable will be shorter. I'll find out at some point.
Geoff Mears

Dave, did you need to make any alterations on the back axle to accommodate the "box section"
Geoff Mears

Geoff
On my steel wheel axle, all I had to do was make up something to stop the compensator rattling around, I cant remember what I did at the moment, but am working on the car tomorrow, so will try to get a photo.

Dave
Dave Barrow

Thanks Dave. Sounds like I'll be going this route.
Geoff Mears

The original system works fine, assuming that the cable is the right length and there is no wear in the many joints.

The late 1500 system works very well, as there is less to wear out.

The w/w version is shorter.

It is a fairly straightforward conversion, except for the addition of something to support the compensator, as Dave mentioned. The 1500 had a small bracket welded to the axle case and a rubber strap between said bracket and the compensator.
Dave O'Neill 2

Thanks Dave. I'll check if Leacy has them in stock and go over and measure up.
Geoff Mears

A right-angle bracket attached to the axle using a jubilee clip should suffice, or maybe an exhaust clamp. It is only for support.
Dave O'Neill 2

Or go the traditional approach and fit a cable shortener. Definitely a 'period' modification!

EBay item 171536656549

Guy W

There's one like that somewhere in my garage Geoff

Even I won't use that

Not even on the basis that I inherited it off my dad, who would have


b u t . . .


bill l

Interesting thread as I've the same issue.
Does this help?
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC7983167/cable-shortening-kit-accel-clutch-and-handbrake-cables/

Jeremy Tickle

on a w/wheel axle the rods are shorter. The cable attaches to exactly the same place as with a standard axle so it will be the same cable for both.
Graeme Williams

Geoff said " I wondered if the 1500 system for a wire wheel car would be shorter"

Yes it is, as there are no rods.
Dave O'Neill 2

early 1500s had the rod system, same as 1275s. W/wheels rods are shorter but in any case Moss sell a kit of adjustable (threaded) rods that covers both steel and wire wheels.
Late 1500s had the reactive cable type that does away with the compensator assembly and again there are two different parts for steel and wire wheels. However so few 1500s were sold with wire wheels that the correct late assembly is hard to find (unless they've made a batch recently)..
David Smith

Don't see how the eBay item is supposed to work, but I now know they don't have a shop front. I'll repeat that.....!! I've tried my own version of cable shortening through a loop, but despite rubber edgings it chafes the cable and breaks the strands. I'll get the late 1500 system and see how it goes. Thanks everyone for your input.
Geoff Mears

The e-bay item is a direct copy of a cable shortener that was common on pre-war cars where it was often used even on cable operated road brakes, not just handbrake cables.

Although it looks primitive it works well and properly fitted there is no chafing of the cable strands as there is no relative movement between the cable and the device. Possibly adding "rubber edgings" introduces movement where there should be none?

That said, if you are up for changing the system as a whole, the 1500 set up is definitely a big improvement, with less to wear and it conveniently side-steps the issue of a too-long inner handbrake cable.
Guy W

Nearly every time a cable (even an old one) appears to be too long it is down to one or more of the following:

Failure to follow the proper adjusting sequence
Worn linkages in the drum
Worn drums

Adjustment should always be adjust the shoes first then the cable. It's a good idea to pull one of the cable clevis pins when doing the shoes so there is no pre-loading of them by the cable.

To check on the linkage thing, check the clearance between the backplate and the lever to which the rod attaches. Ideally there shouldn't be any, up to 5mm is OK and after that the more there is the progressively less effective the handbrake is and the more the cable adjustment used. Restore the situation by building up the notch in the end of the lever.

Drum wear can sometimes be major so it's worth a measure.

Attention to all the above not only brings the cable right whichever system you use (rods or 1500) but also makes for a much better handbrake.
Paul Walbran

Have bought the handbrake cable for wire wheel car. The cable is about 2cms shorter than the standard 1500 one, so I'm hoping it will work for me. Can't for the life of me see how the offside solid rod is supposed to work when you put the handbrake on, but no doubt all will be revealed when I fit it.
Geoff Mears

Found this image while browsing here

http://plus.google.com/photos/118293777638805748352/albums/5592505130023881505?banner=pwa&authkey=CN2PrtWVrd2a8QE

It shows a 1500 Handbrake cable fitted to a 1275 Austin Sprite. Although it is a steel wheel car it should be similar.

Rob


Rob aka MG Moneypit

Geoff the late 1500 system is simply Newton's Third Law, action and reaction.
David Smith

http://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC7983167/cable-shortening-kit-accel-clutch-and-handbrake-cables/

Jeremys post made clickable....very cool, im a fan
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

http://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC7983167/cable-shortening-kit-accel-clutch-and-handbrake-cables/
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Thanks for the picture Rob. I'll do similar.
Geoff Mears

Cheers Prop,

didn't aappreciate the link wasn't clickable - just thought it was black on my machine. I'll tinyurl next time!

Jeremy
Jeremy Tickle

Geoff

Don't forget, it has to be a flexible mount.

Did you also get the rubber strap?


Dave O'Neill 2

Leacy didn't have it, so I got a (MGB exhaust?) rubber mounting approx 3" x 1" which I hope to adapt. I guess I'll find out better what to use when the system is in situ.
Geoff Mears

In the words of Doctor Emmett Brown.....IT WORKS, IT WORKS !!

Used an old coil bracket as the clamp around the axle, a Midget door spacer bent to 90 degrees, a MGB (cough cough) exhaust rubber mounting, and cushioned the cable with a suspension rubber. Never had a handbrake that actually worked before. The shorter wire wheel 1500 cable was just the job


Geoff Mears

This thread was discussed between 19/02/2015 and 27/02/2015

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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