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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Have I blown the head gasket?

Hi all
I was driving home today then suddenly out of the blue the car started misfiring, white smoke started coming out of the exhaust and the engine died (now wont restart) Ive checked the fuel pump and the spark at the plugs and they are fine so am thinking it might be the head gasket however it was so sudden and also there doesnt appear to be water mixed with the oil am I on the right track or am I missing something? Sam
Sam Raouf

White smoke, or white steam ?

Have you overheated the car recently ?

Every car I have owned with a blown head gasket has run, with the gasket gone.

More details please.
Malc Gilliver

Yepp... she went popped, bang, and blew the gasket

Is it a payen gasket ???

Anytime you see a cloud of white (steam/smoke) out the exhauste thats a good sign your burning water

Im going to guess between one of the 2 large water holes and a cly.

Show us some pics

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I wish I could add more detail- it all happened so fast! Pretty much as prop says it (literally) threw a hissy fit. I'll take some photos once I get the head off and post them.
Sam Raouf

I'm with Malc, with everyhead gasket failure I've had the car has been drivable

in fact that is part of the problem, it's a lot easier often to notice HGF with hindsight and possible to be driving the car for quite a while before you notice anything

but yours might not be a HGF and even if it is there's also something else to stop the engine and not be able to restart it

had you recently refuelled?

to check for HGF you can buy litmus type paper tabs or a Frost block test kit if you think it really might be HGF - http://www.frost.co.uk/block-tester.html

also see, this page on how to do the quick head gasket check –
http://www.frost.co.uk/how-do-i-flush-and-refill-my-cooling-system

Some signs that you sometimes get of possibly head gasket failure, some are usually more noticeable with hindsight and you may not get all of them
. misfire whilst running
. loss of power
. coolant in the oil (white mayonnaise, but this can also be from short journeys only)
. gases in the coolant
. oil in coolant
. runs hot
. lost of coolant
. white ‘smoke’ from the exhaust (you’ll notice a coolant loss now)

remember these things are not always all present or noticeable, at the beginning at least, and that you might not have HGF
Nigel Atkins

I had a sudden slight loss of power and lots of white steam out the exhaust, turned out the cylinder head had developed a leak between the water jacket and inlet tract.
David Billington

Well... okay, it may not be a HGF...but I think the likly hood it is is fairly high... if its not a HGF, it wont be cheap to fix....we would talking something very involved and expensive....like a cracked head, or a cracked block....both unlikely given the sudden and non warning of the detenation that occoured

Let me do so looking in the arcives and see if I can find one of my many HGF ive had to deal with that gives me a gut feel as to happened here

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

and it might be a combination of things that might not turn out to be serious or too expensive, you could be right perhaps but I'm not sure enough info has been given yet to go that far yet
Nigel Atkins

This was my last HGF....

this has happened to 2 other midget guysim aware of on other forums but taking out 2 cly at the same time...mine only took out #4 and left me limping home at reduced power the last 1 mile

I nust have a gut feeling when the head comes off it will look similar.... but I cant make any promises ....lets just hope that this all it is and nothing more serious

http://www2.mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=110&subjectar=110&thread=201111160009222250

Prop

Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Agree with you whole heartedly nigel... we wont know any facts until the hhead comes off, but in the mean time it will be fun to speculate and guess like CNN did with the Malaysia disappearing jet crash next to OZ

Nothing like a good midget conspiracy to get the juices flowing....

any chance sam you where driving next to a grassy knowl and a tall book depository building when the head gasket exploded....that could say alot

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Thanks for the feedback! Whatever it is it certainly felt/sounded like something major so I wont bother testing for HGF ill just take the head off and report back with photos! Unfortunately work commitments mean I wont be able to do anything for the next week or so so dont think I'm ignoring you! Sam
Sam Raouf

Sam,

I would at least try to find time to pull the plugs and crank it over and see if any coolant comes out of the plug holes. It would be better not to let it sit a week or so with coolant in the bores. If it is wet, after cranking you might want to spray a bunch of WD-40 down the plug holes and crank it some more. Might also want to drain the block of coolant.

Charley
C R Huff

yepp... charleys the man with the plan, it dosnt take long for rust bunnies to move in and call your engine home sweet home

While my head was off I spray coated my block deck and cly once a week with wd40, if it was really wet.out side all week id do it 2 times a week, and im glad I did...as I still had some small areas that wanted to rust...I certianly never intended to leave the head off as long as I did...but life can get in the way.

So make a date once a week with WD40 and this engine will still be your friend for a long time to come
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Good point chaps! I havent turned the engine over but pulled the plugs yesterday and they were wet. I assumed it was oil but thinking about it it is probably coolant so I'll drain the sump and spray the bores as soon as we have a break in the weather.
Sam Raouf

Ok so Ive pulled the plugs, sprayed loads of WD40 into the bores and drained the sump. Almost wish I hadn't as the magnetic sump plug had some metal shavings attached to it so I'm dreading what I might find when I take the head off!
Sam Raouf

Ouch... this is now officially involved

Metal shavings in the oil at the bottom of the sump, white smoke / steam out the exhauste... completely instant died and dead wont restart and was very abrupt feel the damage being done as it went dead

Busted timing chain perhaps, broken rocker shaft , dropped a valve ???

If its what im guessing, it maybe better to source a another engine

or an alternate engine...

like say a suzuki swift 1300 - 1600cc with a susuki sameri 5 speed dump the efi for 4 direct SU H1 or amal carbs and do a ford edis crank trigger ignition, and that way you can trash out all the other computer senzors emissions and junk ...its a tight fit, but there salvage yard cheap.and 150 hp plus in stock form and have been done several times in frogs and spridgets...that woukd be cool

Anyway... lets see what we have 1st, ... im fresh out of orgasmic breath control.

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Compression check?
Art Pearse

So I took the head off. The gasket looks physically intact (see photo) is there any other way of knowing if it was blown?

I didnt do a compression check before I took the head off as I dibnt have a tester. I ve ordered one so I'll run a test before I put all the ancillaries back on.


Sam Raouf

Im still thinking its deeper then a head gasket from what you said above

But that #2 stud by the alt has my attention lots of rust deep down next to the block... maybe a break in the water jacket some how... it shouldnt be that rusty

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

In the end having stripped the engine down turned out to be contaminated fuel that caused the problem!
Sam Raouf

thanks for reporting back, glad it's sorted
Nigel Atkins

Contaminated fuel !!!

I got brain freeze, wow, that hurts ...can I get some insight on this one please

Contaminated fuel ...hmmm, you mean like uranium 232, or a hydrogen/helium accidental fill up?

Wow...right between the eyes, huge pain

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

No somehow the unleaded was contaminated with diesel which is surprising as it was a BP garage and I filled up with their premium fuel. Probably would have gotten away with if I hadent waited until my tank was completely empty. Needless to say the garage denied they had a problem
Sam Raouf

Yeah...diesel fuel crossover is never a fun time, sorry you had to pull your head and engine apart to find it

What did you determine the metal shavings were from in the sump on the magnetic plug ???

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

It might have been swarf from when I had the engine rebuilt. All components looked fine!
Sam Raouf

Wow....

Reading this thread is like reading threw the Salem witch trials.....Poor head gasket was condemned before any sane man or science could have a say.

Mob rules!
Steven Devine

Not to mention the needless waste of a dead dinosaur that melted into motor oil in th sump

~¿*

Prop

Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I'm not getting over serious, just saying

HGF was one of the things considered, along with fuel, and not thought to be the only fault if it was

Sam elected to take the head off
Nigel Atkins

Nigel

In light of that type of situation all of us would have done the same, its very rare for the driver to fill up on diesel, but it has to be even more rare that the gas station screws up and fills the wrong fuel in there holding tanks

BTW... IS MY contention as to what happened to twa flight 800 that blew up just after take off from NYC to paris and they blamed 26 gauge wire shaffing in the jet fuel tank

I think some idiot put 120 aviation fuel into a the jet fuel tank...once the ave fuel hit the turbin it was lights out....and probably account for why people on the ground thought they saw the flame trail of a rocket hitting the plane

But then I still dont belive that lee harvy oswald was one of the top 25 snipers on the planet back in 1963, so what do I know

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

It wasn't the end of the world.at least I didn't pay someone to do it and I re acquainted myself with the frogeyes inner workings after a year of tinkering with an Alfa Romeo v6 Busso!
Sam Raouf

This thread was discussed between 25/05/2014 and 22/07/2014

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