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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Headlights

There has been recent discussion about sealed beam vs halogen style lamps. What I don't remember being covered is the shape of the glass on the lamps that are available. I bought replacements for my '71 car about 6 years ago. When they arrived (from Moss) I realised that the glass was much flatter than the rusted out originals I was replacing. I decided to go with it for that car but the reflectors have now rusted and they need replacing again.

I also need some headlamps for my Frog and the flatter glass just wouldn't look right on the older car. Does anyone know if the more domed traditional glass lamps are available anywhere.
GuyW

https://www.europaspares.com/cibie-h4-headlamps-7-inch.html

I bought CIBIE 7' the EEG version, the above url is the UK version. Lots of light, much more than the "original" Lucas. They last for years already, no rust. They are not flat but curved. They lack the the Lucas and Made in England letters. I replaced all the cables and relays as well.

Flip
Flip Brhl

Guy
I put this up in the other thread
You might have missed it
They look ok to me from here

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/7-DOMED-LENS-CLASSIC-CAR-SEALED-BEAM-HEADLAMPS-headlightS-HALOGEN-H4-CONVERSION/362094278247?hash=item544e803667:g:XD4AAOSwRplZr~UM
William Revit

I fitted Wipac Quadoptics to my frog the thick end of 30 years ago. I'm happy with the light that they put out, they have a convex lens and I have no corrosion on the reflectors still.
Simon Wood

Guy..I bought some from Dave O'N during the torrential downpour which was Wroxhall:

Dave O'Neill 2, Derbyshire
Cibie/Valeo lamps were available fairly cheaply from Larkspeed.

I sold some sealed beams at Wroxall for the princely sum of 1 each. If anyone else wants some, let me know!

they were original domed glass units
HTH
Dave C
David Cox

I also have Cibie/Valeo headlamps from Europaspares. They look right and perform very well, with a strong, controlled beam pattern. They are better than the lights on my modern VW. They have been on the car for over ten years without any deterioration, and my car frequently stays outdoors in the rain (Lots of rain in Troon).

Previously I had Wipac Quadoptics, and I thought the beam control was poor. Anyway, the reflectors were rusty inside two years. I must have got a Friday batch!
Mike Howlett

..or get one of these..Marchal lamps are a match for the sun..as the picture shows!


David Cox

Thanks. I had purposefully avoided raising the issue of lighting brilliance as I thought that was well covered in that other recent thread and I already have relays fitted. Nevertheless, advice on the quality and longevity of lamps is appreciated!

This was specifically about the flat vs the domed lens shape. It does sound like domed ones are still readily available. I had thought they were NLA!. The badly corroded ones that I want to replace are Wipac branded and only slightly domed. i.e. The centre of the glass is only approx 1"forward of the edge of the chrome retaining rim when fitted. I don't have an original domed one to measure, but I am sure they werev more rounded than these.

These came from Moss with no indication that they weren't the correct OEM replacement item. I should have queried it at the time but they took a while to arrive and I needed to fit them immediately for an extended road trip.

Just to add, they are of course all domed, it's just that some are more domed than others!
GuyW

This part of one of my photos might give some idea of the dome on the Cibie/Valeo lights. They look fine to me, but then I'm not a stickler for originality.



Mike Howlett

Mike, I agree they probably look Ok on your car, but that is what I believe is the more modern, flatter style. I think, for the Frog at least, I would prefer the more domed variety.
GuyW

Dave C

Sorry, I didn't realise that was you.
Dave O'Neill 2

Dave O'N...don't be concerned, Dave....the weather wasn't conducive to standing around chatting!! It WAS good for rummaging around for free stuff in bins rapidly filling with rain water, though!
Dave
David Cox

Guy, mine were fitted new on 17 July 1973, and they look like this (sorry about the rushed sketch, but I've lost my camera at the moment). From the polished rim the dome is 1 1/8" approx.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

. . . and the sketch.


Nick and Cherry Scoop

Well that was a surprise! Whilst rummaging today I found I had a cardboard box with a pair of brand new Wipac headlamps still wrapped and packaged up with halogen bulbs. I have no idea when I bought them unless they came with all the other new parts that came in various boxes from the Frogeye PO.
Bad news they are what I have been calling flat, not domed, and identical to the rusted ones I was complaining about. But since they were there I have fitted them on the '71 Sprite as acceptable for that car. The glass is marked 7370. unlike Nick's 7316 so maybe this number identifies the amount of "dome".

I am still wanting lamps for the Frogeye and for that will certainly want the domed variety.



GuyW

Hard to tell but I think my Lucas H4 conversion lenses are possibly flatter than that or it might be the angle you took the photo at (camera not horizontally level to headlight, forgetting the curvature of Earth).
Nigel Atkins

Photo was not far off horizontal, maybe a little high. They look flatter when fitted in the car because of the effect of the chrome mount and bezel.

The domed ones are distinctly more rounded. Possibly not any higher in the centre, but the glass rises more steeply from the edge of the reflector.
GuyW

In that case Guy that may well be the same flatness/lack-of-dome/domed as my Lucas H4 conversion which may look flatter fitted in the car because of the effect of the chrome mount and bezel - same as a gravity ale that may or may not be off condition a little, or lot - flat as a witch's, er, boob.

Nigel Atkins

Guy,

Just noticed in the latest Practical Classics that arrived today (Dec edition) that 'Mountneyltd.com are remaking the original 7" and they state they are'brighter than OE lamps thanks to more modern bulbs and better reflectors'

I assume they mean filaments as the units are noted as sealed beams.

From 14.99 it states.

May be worth a look if you are still looking but quite a bit dearer than the Dave O'N deal noted above !

R.
richard b

Hi,

Putting this back-up... My sealed beam passed away recently, and I am looking at my different options : buy a new sealed beam, or switch to halogen.

I don't drive so often at night, and still have good eyes :) so "brightness"/lightning the World is not so much a criteria. I am more on the "genuine" side: I would like to keep the headlamp domed - as Guy, keep the "warm" color and have something which looks close to the genuine ones. Can be slightly different for reliability/durability, I am not a fanatic of genuine either...

What did you go for finally, Guy ?
Dave, do you still sell Cibie/Valeo ?

Cheers,
CH Hamon

If you replace only one sealed beam there may be a difference in emitted light between the new and used lights, depending on how the reflector has diminished on the remaining sealed beam you may notice the difference to the new replacement whilst driving.
Nigel Atkins

Cedric

I still have some (used) sealed beams - Lucas/Mazda - if youre interested.
Dave O'Neill 2

Cedric, my interest last year was on getting some with the correct domed glass. In the end I got some 'Lucas' branded lamps that look right. They are not sealed beam as l want to keep the choice open as to which bulbs l fit. Probably halogen ones. On dark country lanes away from city lights you need good headlights to spot all the deer and badgers that share the roads.
GuyW

Guy, are you happy with your Lucas ? Any particular reason you chose this one and not the Cibie or Wipac ones ?

I am looking for non-sealed beam too: easier to find a bulb than a beam...

I thought Dave you hade some non-sealed ones for sale, sorry if I misunderstood that...

(Hopefully I never came across dears with the yellow GTV's beam back in French countryside ! Did with modern ones though....)
CH Hamon

I found some NOS Lucas sealed beams for the frog with the words Lucas on the glass. They looked virtually identical to the old pre-focus ones with the same dome. Lighting is perhaps not as bright as later modern units but is adequate. I am not one for night rallies anymore!!!
Bob Beaumont

My sealed beams are going FREE, if anyone wants to pay the cost of postage.

Alternatively, they can be collected from North Derbyshire, or I could drop them off on my travels. Next week is Northampton, Sheffield and Solihull. The following week Cork, via Holyhead and Dublin.
Dave O'Neill 2

After some reading, I would like to go for Cibie + relay, which is somewhere around 100+ nowdays... I've been told few times that I should concentrate first on making the midget reliable, before uprating it : so I will stay on sealed beam for the moment :)

Dave, is it too late to ask you to drop one in Northampton ? I might know someone who lives there :)
CH Hamon

I think I might know him, too.

Too late, I'm afraid. Northampton was yesterday.
Dave O'Neill 2

Probably best as I would have sold it on. :)

Cedric,
I can ask my mate if he has one in his store of junk, sorry I mean, spare parts if you want.
Nigel Atkins

No problem Dave, thank you again for proposing :)

Nigel, if it can free him up so space, i can volunteer ! Otherwise I will get one on the Bay

Thanks,
CH Hamon

Cedric,
I've asked.

Whatever lights you use you want to ensure all wires and connections including those to all switches and earths are clean, secure and protected that way you will get the most electric to the lights. And very probably not need relays, even if you did fit relays you would still want to check and clean as above. I've not got relays yet my H4 headlights are bright and my cheap modern made column stalk switch has not been burnt out (yet).
Nigel Atkins

Relays are only partly to get bright lights. In my mind the main justification is to protect delicate switch contacts, especially those in the stalk controlled column switch.
GuyW

What rather than cleaning the delicate switch contacts, perhaps every 12 years, yes I see your point. :)
Nigel Atkins

Thread resurrection. I've read through, but the last post was 2019.

I'm still on sealed beams, with pilots, probably from a mini. One just died. I put in a used spare I have, but it's a 'bit' dim (which is why it's spare).

I need a new pair, but don't want sealed beam. Seems a waste of money now.

I want replaceable bulbs, and I want want pilots. I want domed or semi domed -- for looks.

So what are my options? Only halogens? Or can you still get non halogen?

And what brand is best?

Ta chaps.

anamnesis

Anam

You could go for a pair of secondhand Lucas reflectors that were fitted with a BPF bulb - I found some that had been fitted to a RHD Citroen (Traction Avant IIRC), some info: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/books/lucas400e.htm & http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/books/pdf/L400e_sg.pdf I think these were an option for my 1961 Sprite ias an alternativesealed beams but might be a bit too ancient a design for a later car.

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

This thread reminds me that we haven't heard from Cedric for a while.
Dave O'Neill 2

Just what I was thinking, Dave. Hope he is OK and I wonder how the car and house is doing.

Things well with you Dave?

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Anam
I'll have the same thing to do when one of my sealed beams expires. You can get a pair of domed halogen bulb 7" headlights from ebay for about 40 quid. Why do you want pilots?

Bill B

For beam quality and output I found Cibie H4 great, IIRC they're now Valeo. A mate had them already so could compare, I had previously changed the sealed beams on my Sprite to Lucas or Ring H4 but the Cibie were much better so the previous H4s got retired.

Oddly I had sealed beams on my A40 Farina and never felt the need to change them as the were much better than the ones in the Sprite.
David Billington

Thanks Mike. But think I prefer new now.

Looked on ebay Bill, there is some cheap stuff on there. And 'Wipacs', that are not actually Wipac at all, but are 'Neolite', or 'Autopal'. A cheaper not so good make. I had them on the Capri as they were in spares that came with it. I wasn't impressed with the light spread.

I'm not sure why, but I seem to think Wipac are a decent brand. Is that correct though?

I want pilots because I don't drive around at night with my headlights on in town, and the addition of those pilots, a là Mini, makes a difference.

Anyway, I found these Wipac quadoptic (quadoptic being wipac's own description for H4 it seems) kits from ESM Morris. Genuine Wipac inc bulbs. 57 quid inc vat, plus 11 quid delivery. They are quite near me, so I can collect.

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/electrical-c54/headlights-all-types-c58/wipac-halogen-headlamp-headlight-kit-pair-r-h-drive-with-pilot-light-p829801

Anybody here got these wipacs? Any good?



anamnesis

Thanks David.

Any idea who sells the Cibie/Valeo?

I can't find them.
anamnesis

https://www.mgocspares.co.uk/parts/1_3_355_2701_3838_3840/7-halogen-headlamps

?
Tim Carter

SVC do halogen and sealed beam. Not checked lately but their prices used to be competitive.

Trev
T Mason

Thanks Tim. They don't seem to have stock of what I want though. Who are q parts anyway?

https://www.mgocspares.co.uk/product/m205/q-parts-headlamp-set-h4-incl-pilot-r-b-rhd?nodePath=1/3/355/2701/3838/3840

SVC Trev? Who is that?

anamnesis

SVC is Stafford Vehicle Components who have been around for years. They usually have a stand at the major car shows and I have also seen them at a car show abroad. Always used to exchange a few words with the owner, whose name I never got to know, but he retired a couple of years back and I believe it is his son that runs things now.
Alan Anstead

Thanks Alan. I'll take a look.
anamnesis

15 years ago I fitted a pair of Wipac Quadoptics on my MGB and they were OK. But within less than 2 years the reflectors were quite rusty. I changed them for Cibie / Valeo H4 and they are superb and still going strong. But you don't seem to be able to find them these days.

I had four small Autopal lights on my Dolomite. The light beam was somewhat scattered but they gave a decent enough illumination and the MOT guy never mentioned them.
Mike Howlett

Alan, didn't realise the owner of SVC had retired, although I guess he is a similar age to a lot of us so not surprising. He was always worth chatting to as he had a classic of his own and always seemed knowledgeable about his products.

Trev
T Mason

I've seen some I assume genuine wipacs advertised as having a 'plastic' reflector.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254412938388

And a nos 70s/80s Wipac kit. Pethaps better quality and wouldn't rust. You'd hope not, as almost twice the price of current Wipacs. £79.00+ £9.97 postage

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/226379215118

Who's willing to take a punt that they are better for being nos? Were wipac a quality brand, vs Cibie and Lucas?





anamnesis

How about Tudor?

Anybody heard of these? Any good?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334971315420

£34.95 Free delivery in 2-3 days


anamnesis

I'm NOT paying 400 quid, or more for Cibie nos.

£375.00
0 bidsEnds in 4d 5h
£13.25 delivery in 2 days

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276826442985

Any takers here?


anamnesis

This looks interesting for rust proof.

" - UK specification 7" round, rust-proof glass fibre reinforced plastic reflector with sidelight. Headlamps dip to the left. These lenses offer superb all-round levels of performance. They are a direct replacement for standard 7" reflector units. H4 P43t headlamp socket and T10 WEDGE 5W sidelight.

As fitted to Morgan plus four models, plus many other British vehicles. -"

@£34.09 /Each (inc. VAT @ 20%)

https://www.classicbulbs.co.uk/products/s6010-7-halogen-lens-wipac-quadoptic

So plastic/glass fibre is a pucker product.

Interesting retailer.

https://www.classicbulbs.co.uk/

"We specialise in the supply of incandescent, halogen and led bulbs for classic and vintage cars, from our warehouse in Malvern, Worcestershire. Our product range covers all bulb applications for cars, commercial vehicles, motorcycles and scooters from the 1920s to the 1990s "



anamnesis

Anam, you asked were Wipac a quality brand. I would say they were a middle of the road brand back in the day compared to the likes of Lucas, Cibie etc. I believe they are now Chinese owned though so quality may be suspect.


You must have heard of Tudor as they used to do screen washers and mirrors etc back in the day. Dont know what they are like now.

Trev
T Mason

Thanks Trev.

Yep, you've jogged my memory re Tudor screen washers etc.
anamnesis

I had the same experience as Mike H many years ago - Wipacs rusted and replaced with the Cibies H4?which were not that expensive at the time and really good.

Things have moved on and I doubt any of the offerings are the same now.

The Cibies the rally and some early Porkers want are the Bi-odes - they had a second reflector for main beam with separate bulbs. Last time I saw them advertised it was phone numbers and I had a spare I gave away years ago !
richard b

I spoke with a bloke who has the Wipac kit on his old Land Rover. He reckons the light spread is good. But he's only had them a few years, so no clear view on the rust issue.

Is the rust inside? Does it impact the chrome reflectors?

Or is the rust external? How hot do the reflectors get with halogen bulbs? Could they be protected with grease, or a coat of a heat proof paint?

anamnesis

I had Wipacs rusting back in the ‘80s, bad enough for a MoT failure.

I’ve always been happy with Lucas halogens.

I picked up a pair of Hella halogens on eBay, not that long ago. I remember having some many years ago and they were good.
Dave O'Neill 2

Dave O'Niell2 said:

>>This thread reminds me that we haven't heard from Cedric for a while.<<

It reminded me too so I emailed him.
He's okay. Has his hands full with a toddler and a house to fix. But he still has his Spridget although it's been a bit neglected.
I'll try to nudge him to update the BBS tribe. Better for him to talk than me.
Goodnight fellas.
Greybeard

Thanks for the Cedric update Grey.
William Revit

After reading numerous accounts online of rusted wipacs, and some autopals too, I've come to the conclusion that the Wipac plastic reflector version is the better bet.

Lucas now are just a cheap version of what they once were, abd Cibie seem unobtainable, except for the 400 quid nos I linked to earlier.

So I guess plastic Wipac it is.

anamnesis

Well, there's a thing. We put H4's in the elan back when it was nearly new and they've always been magic lights, so just for you i thought i'd have a look-see at what brand they are. An old friend in the US gave them to me out of a car a mate of his was converting to lhd. back then.
Had a look today ,the reflectors/lenses are still perfect and the only lettering on the glass is a rather largish H4. The lenses go out straight for about 1/4" from the chrome rim then go accross rather flattish like a Cibie does.
Absolutely no other markings ,no E no nothing, so i pulled one out to see if there was anything on the back---nothing, They have 100/90w Hella halogen globes but definately not Hella lights --- got me stuffed what they are.
Glad to be able to help----------lol
willy
William Revit

Thanks Willy. 😆. If you decide you no longer want them cheap unbranded ones, I'll take 'em. Might as well bung me the Elan too. 😉🤣

Rusted reflectors may be a modern quality issue. Maybe in the past they were all better made, as well affordable. Perhaps the issue is the same as a lot of stuff for older cars; namely crap compared to how it used to be.

Here's another option.

If I buy the plastic (grp) Wipacs, instead of fitting halogen bulbs, I may fit LED.

My question is, how long do LED last in headlights? They ain't cheap.

They seem to range from circa 20 quid to circa 60 quid EACH.

Better light, but rather expensive.

At high cost, how long do they last?

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-h4-472-476-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts



anamnesis

<< Things well with you Dave?

Cheers
Mike>>

All good here, thanks Mike.
Dave O'Neill 2

Answer is, leds last 30000 to 50000 hours.

And since I drive at night so infrequently now, even with halogens lasting 5000 hours, it would probably mean this is last time I'll ever buy new 'bulbs'.

So which ones?

With cooling fans, or heatsinks?

Seems to me cooling fans are just something else to go wrong.

Jeremy, are you reading this?

I think I read in the archives, you have converted to Led headlights? -- Around the time there was confusion about led legality pre 1981 vehicles. - They ARE legal

What did you buy?

This is interesting though. Are Leds in headlights going to be made illegal again, or restricted in brightness?

"Dazzling headlights are ruining your journeys – here’s what can be done

Nine out of 10 drivers say glare bothers them – so what is the cause of the problem and how might things improve? "

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/dazzling-headlights-getting-worse-but-government-responding/



anamnesis

"The Government has given an update on a prospective ban on dazzling LED headlights."

"This work is underway and due to deliver in summer 2025; it will include real-world assessment of glare on a broad range of road types and scenarios including country roads."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-14312381

Oooer. Maybe I'll stick with halogens then; for now at least.


anamnesis

I fitted Cibie / Valeo back in 2012 so perhaps I should increase the Agreed Value!!
Doug Plumb

not a led headlight fan at all--they look brighter-to everyone else except you, it's a different light that appears unfocused would be the best description--the problem with them is when it rains or if it's foggy, they light up every raindrop and if it's foggy it's like a big white sheet.
If you go the plastic lenses I'd worry about running decent halogens, think you'd need to stick to 60w to keep the heat level down
William Revit

Thanks Willy.

Yep, if plastic Wipacs, I'd stick with the 60/55 halogens. That way no need for a relay either.

You should Doug. Cost you a fortune to replace now, IF you can find a pair.
anamnesis

You could try contacting Valeo-Prime

Supposed to be Cibie main UK distributor.

https://valeo-prime.co.uk/headlamp.html?sort_options=a.ordering-ASC&start=36

Dave O'Neill 2

This thread has got me thinking and I wonder why people with halogen headlights go to LEDs when, although not strictly legal, you can put higher rated halogens in and not get the issues you get with some LEDs. Thinking of sealed beams I doubt you could find them now but back in the day I used to use 75/60w sealed beams in my Cortina. I also notice that a lot of the manufacturers of brighter halogens dont put the wattage in the spec and use lumens instead.

Trev
T Mason

I've a sneaky suspicion that the regulation for headlamps is expressed in watts which anams chart shows can mean 2000 to 20000 lumens depending on technology.
Also modern cars with separate main and dip headlights fitted leave both on when going to main beam.

Not many drivers seem to know when to dip their main beams. I was taught the following.

If the oncoming car is blinding you flash them or dip yours. If the oncoming car flashes you or goes to dip then dip yours. If you are the lead car in a convoy put your main beams on. If the car behind overtakes you dip your headlights.
Rob
MG Moneypit

Rob, the regs for headlights do quote wattage. I thought it was 60/55w to be road legal but depending on where you look it seems a bit vague now like a lot of regs.

Of course a lot of modern cars automatically dip and only cut out part of the light.

Trev
T Mason

If you could tolerate a flatter look, might Hella be a better quality option?
See: https://www.bowerspartsonline.co.uk/brands/hella/hella-7-inch-halogen-h4-flat-lens-headlight-headlamp-1l6002395261

https://www.bowerspartsonline.co.uk/lighting/front-lighting/7-inch-headlights?qfs=1&p=1
M Wood

Ok an. now you've done it, I would really like to know what brand my H4's are. Here's a couple of pics showing their shape and lens features----Anyone know what they are--?? - please

Also on the halogen subject, I put some 130w halogens in a MGB i had once, without a relay--The first longish trip on high beam was interesting with a slight melting plastic smell, checked the wiring and it looked fine so took the punt and never smelt it again. The poor old switches etc were probably running full overload but never caused an issue.






William Revit

Dunno Willy. But they look nice. Maybe just burnt off the dirt. Lol. Maybe 'H4' was a brand in itself?

Thanks Mike. Quite expensive when vat and post added, from their own site.

But found the same on ebay, also from Bowers. £49.99 Free delivery in 1-2 days
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232911683791

And even cheaper here.
Driven 2 Automotive
£37.79 each Free delivery in 2-3 days
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163183082163

Not sure if 'flat' bothers me. Actually looks slightly 'domed'.

Are Hella German?



anamnesis

Anam
Given that they're easy to change and you don't use them much anyway, why not just get a cheap pair anyway and see how they last?
Bill B

When fitting out my frog I bought a pair, not realising how flat they were (like that photo). Would have been ok on the later car, 1971, but definitely looked wrong for the frogeye bonnet pods. Sent them back for a refund and got some proper domed variety.
GuyW

Hi Bill. Because all in, even the cheapest pairs (neolite/autopal) are 35 quid, and seem likely to rust in several years. And from my own experience with neolite/autopals in my Capri, the light pattern wasn't really very good. I've now read a number of similar comments online about the neolite/autopal light output.

A bit of a waste of money it seems to me. And even if I don't drive a lot at night now, there is the odd occasion I do, and it's nice to be able to see the road well. 🤣.

Next step up seems to be Wipac quadoptic metal backed reflectors. Circa 50 quid a pair all in, is the cheapest I can find. Again numerous comments online regarding rust in a few years. But generally good for light and pattern, although some say very poor compared to Cibie.

Then Wipac quadoptic plastic backed reflectors. Circa 70 quid a pair all in is probably the cheapest. No rust, but same light pattern comments as metal backed.

New entry thanks to Mike is HELLA.

Just been reading up on Hella. Circa 100 quid a pair all in. I haven't found any bad comments about them. No 'rusty reflector' reviews. Perhaps their secret is in the well fitting rubber boot that covers the bulb holder holes.(Maybe that's all the others need; better sealing rubber boots). And good reviews on the light output too.

Hella has a GREAT website and a long history. (No assurance of quality these day though, it must be said).
https://www.hella.co.nz/en/about-us/technology/headlamps-and-inserts/hella-headlamp-systems/

But, maybe it's, ---

Wipac say goodbye, Hella say hello 😉.
https://youtu.be/rblYSKz_VnI?feature=shared

Guy, I don't know, but were 1950's 7 inch headlight glasses originally only domed, only for technical not aesthetic reasons? I agree, the curves of a Frog suit domes. Even the later models have curves on the wings, and the domes do 'flow' nicely from the wings. But suppose the Frog had been fitted with flats. I don't think it would look so bad. And then fitting domes instead of flats, might look out of kilter instead. Maybe it's a lot to do with what we're used to.

Or maybe, some Things You Never Get Used To 😀

https://youtu.be/fjbauAUfLag?feature=shared


anamnesis

Just aesthetics Anam. In the eye of the beholder. I fitted one flat one. Didn't like what I beheld, so sent them back.
Flat ones on the other car look fine, to me. Probably looked with the other eye.

Can't remember what they cost. Too long ago, or not long enough perhaps. 😂 And I've never been good at keeping written records of that sort of thing.
GuyW

Even Cibie rust/fade/deteriorate.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/405483971144

That's the major advantage of sealed beams then.



anamnesis

A bit of bacofoil should put that right!!
Rob
MG Moneypit

Silver nitrate silvering?
David Billington

Found these on ebay. They seem to be plastic lenses. Cheap with free postage but no connectors and no rubber seals.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256791588167

Rob
MG Moneypit

Glass lense plastic back/reflector. No pilot light Rob.
anamnesis

Back to domes. Yep aesthetics by choice now Guy. But can you get flat lense sealed beam headlights?

No I don't think you can. The reason for domes in sealed beams isn't aesthetic.

Here's an interesting history.

SEALED BEAM HEADLAMPS HISTORY
The first sealed beam headlamps were introduced in 1940 by the General Electric Company. This innovative design was based on a single unit that was easy to install on any vehicle and not subject to the wear and tear of traditional bulbs.

The sealed beam headlamp design was quickly adopted in the United States and soon became the industry standard. By 1975, all vehicles manufactured and sold in the United States were required to have sealed beam headlights.
https://blog.headlightrevolution.com/blast-from-the-past-sealed-beam-headlamps-history

Read these 2 pdfs, -- if you're REALLY interested in headlights. 😉






anamnesis

Here's a link to the other pdf.

It's too big to upload. 6.34mb.

AUTO HEADLIGHT c;/LASS: VISIBLE FEATURES OF FORENSIC UTILITY


https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/46176NCJRS.pdf


anamnesis

an. - just be aware, if you're going to get some off fleebay or anywhere for that matter. Just make sure the lenses are for RHD-
William Revit

Yep, thanks Willy. Already checked that. Just asked one supplier exactly that.

Hella describe their left dipping RHD lights, as for 'Left hand traffic'.

And I already know an arrow pointing left or right, or even both ways or none, denotes dip direction.

But here's a question you might have an answer for.

E codes.

The letter E is followed by the number of the country that has granted type approval. Examples, Australia E45, Germany E1, UK E11.

What I want to know is, is one countries e code, a different light pattern/spread, or superior/inferior, to another countries e code; -- given that you can seemingly get left dipping E1(German) headlight units.


I see talk online of people discussing various headlights, and saying that this or that E code is better/worse than another E code.

Can you shed any light Willy? 😉
anamnesis

A picture of E code vs North American DOT standard. Note: LHD/driving on right side of road.

Arguably, the DOT standard is better; other than at illuminating elevated road side signs, which the e code does better with the upwards slope.


anamnesis

The E code means European standard and the number covers which particular design feature required by a particular country---As in if you change a normal globe to a halogen globe, then really it's a different E number then
My golf although it has std VW headlights is a pain on rainy nights, high beam is too wide/high out to the left and really lights up road signs to the point where I end up on low beam a lot to stop the dazzle--it's not good, too much angle change between L/H beams

https://www.hella.co.nz/en/about-us/technology/headlamps-and-inserts/decoding-the-combinations/
William Revit

Just to add to this I've had look at the golf's lights to compare to the chart. So it's got E1 on them which means Germany-? but my car was built in Africa and sold new in Australia bit weird. but vw being German i guess it just happens that way.-- but also found a light symbol with 1% downwards sloping beam so that'd be 1ft drop in 100. I've got them set at 1" drop in 25ft so might drop them to 3" to meet the spec. Sounds fairly low but if it stops it lighting up the roadside signs at night I'd like that---low beam will get shortened up but we'll see--Stupid setup has separate reflectors for L/H beams but can't be adjusted individually
William Revit

It's all more interesting and complex than I'd previously thought Willy.

Actually, I'd never really give much thought to it at all though. Just used or bunged in the 'standard' offerings.

More traffic, far brighter oncoming, much higher headlights because of bloody great suvs, my own eyes older and not so good night vision as when younger. And it's worse on the 'narrow' roads I mostly drive on round here. It all adds up.

So I figure now, instead of the cheapest, even though I don't drive so much at night, I reckon I'll go for the Hellas.



anamnesis

Anam

Have you found out what the Hella part number is for the left hand dipping Hella 7 inch H4 headlight without a pilot light (sidelight) is please? I think it might be Hella 1L6 002 395-131 but not too sure if this is the one without the sidelight (pilot).

If it is then they seem to be in stock here: https://www.driven2automotive.com/shop/1l6002395-131-hella-headlight-left-or-right/?srsltid=AfmBOor4NTFJ8sc2h6x1DNJOV4zNKwJgPXeZ3NSOYy-MLJ1q1s9I0t9K

(And possibly here: https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/hella-fog-lamps-driving-lights-471770160)

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Mike, you could be right, and maybe I'm reading it wrongly.

But without pilot/position/side light sems to be 1L6 002 395-021, according to Hella's website.

https://www.hella.co.nz/en/products/driving-headlamp/7-round-headlamps-and-housings/

But Bowers says 1L6 002 395-03. But quite expensive at Bowers.

https://www.holden.co.uk/p/hella-7-inch-light-unit-lhd-without-side-light-1

Seems to be a bit confusing re the part numbers. Best to confirm with the supplier exactly what part number they are using, and that it's genuine Hella and not just a 'Hella' 'compatible'.

With the sidelight seems to be the default and oddly cheaper.






anamnesis

<<With the sidelight seems to be the default and oddly cheaper.>>

Possibly due to quantities made/sold.
Dave O'Neill 2

Yep could be David. Makes sense, as I think the Hellas without sidelight, seem to be mostly in LHD form.

The Bowers unit I posted below is LHD.

And further searching ebay and google uk, I can't find a HELLA RHD 7 inch round halogen without a sidelight. Only with.



anamnesis

How about using the Hella's pilot light as a DRL, using an led?
Jeremy MkIII

I think Mike doesn't want that sidelight facility at all. In which case just don't connect it I guess.

But yep for those who want dlrs, that's an Idea Jeremy.

Aren't dlrs supposed to switch off at night when the headlights are on, becausr led dlrs dazzle? Think I read that somewhere.

anamnesis

Just be a little carefull with buying Hella. If it's anything like here there are copies from India.
The advertising is very sneaky, the main ad. will say Hella but when you read the little stuff it says Hella style--these replicas aren't over great quality.
William Revit

You can get a DRL controller, like this one from Aliexpress.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32721120761.html

If the input voltage is over about 13v (engine running) it turns on the DRLs. There is also a wire to connect to the headlights, so they aren’t both on at the same time. The DRLs will also stay on for about 20 seconds after the ignition is turned off, as the battery voltage drops.


Dave O'Neill 2

And that is why UK manufacturing doesn't stand a chance! We couldnt manufacture the wires with crimped on spade connectors for that price! We really are a very small insignificant country these days.

Incidentally if you do fit a headlight unit with the side light socket that you don't use, then plug the opening with a cork or gaffer tape. It's surprising how much dust, debris and small creatures find their way in otherwise.
GuyW

Not just UK Guy
China just floods ebay here with ads.
I've been fixing up an old overhead projector for a friend of my wife. It has a 240v 10a dual circuit manual reset overload that has died mechanically--won't reset.
Tried everywhere to get one but can only get singles which won't really work, can't have one circuit going alone for very long at all. but had a brainwave, two self resetting overloads would work. So onto ebay, found just the thing $2 and $1.80 if you buy more than one ,so at $3.60 -from china and wait for it ---$2.40 postage. Pressed the button and it's happening, had an email straight away with a tracking number and have had updates every day--It's in Aust. already-4 days from ordering and is being delivered in Aust to me through Australia Post -----All good
Same day ordered some bike bits from mainland Aust. 300Klm away, the package was under 500grms and it cost $16.50 through Aust Post
How do the china people do it---BIG government subsidies I reckon
Stupid thing is I've been tracking both packages and the china one will be here first, expected Mon. and the other local one Wed. ridiculous
William Revit

"How do the china people do it-"
As well as subsidies, dirt cheap labour is a big facror Willy.

Of course the 'west' can't compete. Esp' in countries like the UK, where we are about to increase the minimum wage again, and a new workers rights bill, with work from home also enshrined. No hope.

Yep. Well aware of the 'Hella' scam Willy. I mentioned it earlier. 'Hella', often turns out to be Autopal or Neolite; as you say, from India. Lucas too now it seems, and not sure the quality is as good anymore.

Same applies to Wipacs.

I always scrutinise the full description for the stated brand. And I email the supplier to confirm that the item really is the described brand.

The 'with sidelight' option Hellas, are supplied complete with bulb holder and bulb Guy. So the sealing bung is effectively already in place. Just don't connect if not wanted.

But I do want the sidelight option. My sealed beams have it.

As for Dlrs, I don't want them. I see (pun) no need for them, and would rather not add anything I don't need. Just something else to go wrong on a very simple car.

I've got what I need. Lol.

"Got my hair, got my head
Got my brains, got my ears
Got my eyes, got my nose
Got my mouth, I got my smile"

https://youtu.be/L5jI9I03q8E?feature=shared

anamnesis

I always search on ebay with UK only selected. But now the Chinese sellers have UK bases but the items still come from China. It works like this. You pay for your item (dearer than direct from China but still a lot cheaper than the usual suspects), the UK base orders it from China then books it with RM to get a tracking number. 2 days later the airmailed item arrives at the UK base, they slap a label over the Chinese one and pop it in the post. It arrives on day 4.
One other benefit (to China) is they avoid import duty. If the Chinese use UK importers and the order (or packaged items) is over £135 they have to pay import duty and VAT on top. By doing it in small value individual items they avoid import duty.
Rob
MG Moneypit

82p Dave; that price it must be 'dumping'?
Is AliExpress ok? I've been sorely tempted by Temu but the prices seem just too good to be true so haven't dabbled yet.

Similar to you Anam, at the time I could only source headlights with pilots, it seemed a shame to waste the bulbs, so just wired them up with the existing sidelights.

The car is Glacier White so is pretty visible but during the day people seem to see me, wait a second and then pull out anyway.
Don't know why but have noticed with headlights (leds) on, it happens significantly less.
There's probably a study on this behaviour somewhere😏
Jeremy MkIII

It's getting that way now that most new cars have drl's
and I reckon there's a bit of an issue in that people just don't look anymore they get used to seeing lights and if you're running without them you're a sitting duck specially if your car's grey like mine. I really notice it as soon as it's past mid afternoon I have to turn my low beams on or I get oncoming cars pulling out to pass---because they didn't look properly. Same on the bike, if you haven't got your light on you're not there apparently.
William Revit

Size matters too Jeremy. For some reason, small cars and bikes, aren't seen as a 'threat' or a danger to pull out in front of. Maybe perception as small, results in a lower estimation of approaching speed, and an overestimation of distance.

Yep that's a good point Willy; as you discussed with Guy earlier (another thread). People don't see everything, filter the scene, and fill in what they expect.

So when everyone has lights on, some become 'invisible' again, and those withouts lights are already invisible, as they are not expected/recognised at all.

Forests and trees, can't see the wood. The DC plane crash, some pilots saying that so much light from other sources contributed to the Hawk pilots not recognising the Jet's lights.

We'll be back to walking speed with red flags at this rate. Lol.


anamnesis

Hi

I can confirm that the Hella H4 7 inch diameter headlight 1L6002395-131 has a pilot light (side light). Hopefully this is one for a left hand dip (for a right hand drive car) as the arrow on the lens suggests this - the label on the bulb says ‘LHD’ - let’s hope this stands for left hand dip!

These might be used on assorted 1970s/1980s VWs - Mk2 Polos? Golfs? T25 Transporters? This would explain the availability and price - from approx £30 upwards.





M Wood

Further pics of Hella H4 7 inch diameter headlight 1L6002395-131

Note comes with a rubber cover for the back of the bulb and the sidelight.

Purchased from: https://www.driven2automotive.com/shop/1l6002395-131-hella-headlight-left-or-right/?srsltid=AfmBOor4NTFJ8sc2h6x1DNJOV4zNKwJgPXeZ3NSOYy-MLJ1q1s9I0t9K





M Wood

If you want Cibie H4 round 7 inch headlight which are apparently out of production (I found an online Triumph forum that a poster had heard that the mould unserviceable now so no retooling by Cibie/Valeo to make any more) it looks like an Aston Martin parts supplier still stock them for left hand dip and right hand dip cars, with and without sidelights in the headlamp unit: https://www.astonparts.com/lighting-accessories-c6942-menu.html
M Wood

E4, Holland.

Have you bought that one in your pictures then Mike?

Maybe worth calling the supplier to confirm the dip direction.

The arrow is normally on the glass. Seen from the front, you then need an arrow pointing right, for left dipping. I can't see an arrow on the front though.

On the rear label like that though, the arrow pointing right, would suggest to me the dip direction is to the right, for driving on the right side of the road.

A bit confusing.


That's a pretty good price for the Cibie from the Aston dealer. And I reckon they will be genuine and good quality too. Not 'that' much more than Hellas either, depending where you look that is..


anamnesis

Anam

Yes, the arrow on these Hella lights does go the correct way for a right hand drive car driven in the UK (I.e. when installed the arrow points to the near side kerb). I did buy a pair of them.

The Cibies seem good value as they seem to be in stock at that Aston parts supplier as well as not as expensive as private sellers asking £250 a pair.

Cheers
Mike


M Wood

That's good Mike. How much inc' shipping and vat for the pair?

I should get my finger out and replace my ailing sealed beams.
anamnesis

Anam

I paid £57.68 for two Hella H4 7 inch diameter round headlights with pilot (sidelight), Hella part number 1L6002395-131, delivered (£27.28 including VAT each plus £3.12 postage and packing, delivery Royal Mail 48 hours): https://www.driven2automotive.com/shop/1l6002395-131-hella-headlight-left-or-right/

Sidelight bulbs included, H4 headlamp bulbs not included.

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Thanks Mike. That's pretty good I reckon.

anamnesis

I note that those Hellas are made in Romania so what's the quality like Mike?

Trev
T Mason

Trev

The quality looks good but won’t properly know until I test them (how good beam pattern is) and also how they fit and how durable.

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Dacia score pretty well in Which? reliability and are built in Romania.
My Ford is Romanian built and looks pretty well put together; certainly better built then anything which came out of Dagenham/Halewood.
Jeremy MkIII

Jeremy, good to hear that your Romanian built vehicles are well made.

Another brand of good quality lighting that might have or had an H4 7 inch diameter headlight is Bosch. I have yet to find a part number or example of application or one for sale but wondering if these were on Mk2 VW Golfs etc.

Anyone heard of Autopal brand and got experience of quality and beam pattern as some VW websites sell these?

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

This thread was discussed between 07/10/2018 and 06/02/2025

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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