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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Heater, tell me again, please.

Whilst on my trip to the beach I had my hood up for the first time, just to see what it was like. As the weather is still beautiful here (4 weeks of sun in Cornwall,unheard of!!) the cockpit was already warm but with the heater sending warm air through the vents it very soon had me sweating and the dog panting. (he went for a paddle in the pond to cool off when we got home)

Now, my heater knob turns so the heater blows, but it will not pull out (ceased). If this is freed off will it turn off the heat when pulled out? Or do I have to turn the tap under the bonnet every time I want to turn heat on or off? (also ceased)and will be a pain in the posterior.
J Mee

Yup - you do :) UNLESS you fix a wire from it to inside, but, it's a drag .....
rachmacb

Pulling the knob out closes the airflap in the heater intake. It doesn't pull out when it is turned to the 'fan on' position, only when off.

As for heat...yes, you need to open the bonnet and turn the tap. Alternatively, fit a Mini heater tap and add another cable.
Dave O'Neill 2

I might be wary of closing that heater tap when the weather is hot, despite what it does to the cockpit temperature. I feel that my 1275 needs all the help it can get to dissipate heat when driving hard [is there any other way?]
David Cox

Has anyone fitted a Mini heater tap and some sort of control or any other method ,for that matter?
J Mee

John,

Don't worry, the sun will be back soon.


I've got the tap from an MPi Mini to fit in-line between the block and the heater. I'm 90% sure I can use the existing cable and re-route it to operate the valve.

http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?ty=pb&pid=34140&title=

I got one for a bit over a fiver on eBay - it will be simply a case of cutting the hose and fitting the valve in. I'll show you when you come over...

I bought it because when it comes to putting the hardtop on in the winter I will be cooked!

Mark
MarkH1

John life would be a lot easier for you if you bought the owners Hanbook only £8 http://www9.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgocregalia&id=099531277910267&mode=item&itemid=0057&cat=Handbooks

It'll also tell you how the hood should be folded

I've a lot of dealings with the heater tap, some will tell you that they leak and they do unless you get a well made one, get one via eBay from this guy http://www.mgcars.org.uk/ah/

As well as the paper gasket you'll also need a copper washer if you have the all-in-one heater and fan box to take up the threads because the tap outlet faces a different way, and you'll need some gasket seal

I've not seen the Mini vavle shown here before so can not comment on that one but when I asked, two years ago, the man from the Mini Hospital said the new valves for Minis often leaked
Nigel Atkins

You could make one up out of baling twine and sticky back plastic ...... :)

I was thinking that today when the sun was beating down on my smelly sticky back, and I was dribbling oil down my rusting dirty wings - how easy it would be to make - and then I could see how quick it would all melt into a disgusting mess ......

OR - you can put that down to sunstroke!

Seriously, I have thought about putting one of the swivel wires they advertise somewhere on ebay, but, it's all part of the joy of owning a classic British sportscar
rachmacb

I have a hand book and a workshop manual and know how to fold the hood, but when your car comes with a ceased heater cable that doesn't operate, it is hard to sus things out by using them and seeing what happens.
It seems a total nonsense to me not to be able to control the heat from inside the car. With the roof up you just cook! And that is NOT part of the magic of owning a classic it is just plain stupid. A tap under the bonnet for christ sake, on a 1920's car maybe but by 1974 there can't have been many cars where you had to stop, lift the bonnet and turn off a tap. (And I know you can drive with the hood down, but not in the pouring rain)
I will investigate the Mini tap.
Sometimes I find the lack of design in some items staggering.
J Mee

John,
You really shouldn't be surprised. On the early cars the heater was an optional extra - it wasn't supplied with one as standard. These were built as low-cost cars after all!

I assume that you are aware of the air control flaps on the transmission tunnel. This gives a further degree of considerable control. I tend to leave the heater valve open throughout the winter and control the heat to the cockpit and to the demisters by various combinations of the fan, flap valve and air control flaps. From around Easter onwards I just close off the water valve under the bonnet and then use the same controls to provide added cockpit cooling as needed. The system works well enough. I have certainly never had to resort to using the heater as an aid to engine cooling! Well, not on the Sprite anyway, although it is a useful backup if something else fails.

Guy
Guy Weller

Yeap the heater tap is annoying but after a while you get used to it

I thought about changing mine to a cable type but after putting the effort into getting the tap and grommets not to leak I'm sticking with it

If it was just me in the car I'd only have to bother with it twice a year

In the 1960s heater were still extras

When the midget first came out in the 1960s a lot of it was out of date so by the mid 70's it was even more out of date

Sorry I thought you were missing the owners Handbook John as you asked how the H knob worked and the heater cable being ceased ??? do you mean the cable that controls the flap for fresh air?
again these are explained in the owners handbook and the switch to control the fan on these often go but the flap usually work and are easy to free up

Upload a photo for clarity perhaps - just trying to help
Nigel Atkins

why do people buy a classic car then do nothing but whinge about it.at the end of the day how hard is it to pop the bonnet and turn a tap? if its really that annoying buy a ford mondeo. personly whenever i pop the bonnet to adjust the tap i also glance over the engine to check everything else is ok.and yes to me and alot of other people this sort of thing IS part of the magic of owning a classic car. realisticly how often would you need to adjust the heater anyway?
roy j

look how blooming hard it is to actually find the bonnet safety release lever on a Monjo anyway (tucked away next to the greasy cable releasey bit, I ALWAYS get a mucky finger [ooh missus!] trying to find it without cracking my spine bending to seek it)

I have an old Mini/Moggy thou/A35 (whatever) valve I could fit but to be honest I've never bothered

Enjoy one of the quirks of an old classy car I say
bill sdgpm

Sorry but I'm with John on this

I've got used to it but it's still annoying and should have been sorted by the 70s and if John can find a (reliable?) alternative good for him (if it doesn't leak after a couple of years let me know as I'll still be with the wife)

What I would say (and I've been very guilty of this more than once) is that people should do a lot more reseash on a car type of car before they buy it and once they've got it learn about that why I go (and on and on) about new owners buying the owners Handbook and even worshop manuals and parts catalogue, preferably before you buy the car

You can shred Haynes as far as drivers are concerned

Let those without sin cast the first stone tho' - and that wont be me with my record

Are you lads saying you haven't updated anything on your cars and are enjoying all of the original quirks of the car?
Nigel Atkins

Well

I removed my wing and that really was a bu**er!!!

Midgets eh?? - who'd have 'em?????

























ME ME ME!!!!!!
j b biggs

Well - I did change my heater tap - coz the previous one didn't work - the new one leaks water all over my fusebox - so - now I just put thermals on :)

I have the valve open all the time on the other thing.

But, at the end of the day, you do pretty much only turn it on for winter and off for summer, and you'd be working under the bonnet twice a year anyway ... so, no, it's no major biggie!
rachmacb

I have ridden classic bikes all my life and have owned 3 Moggies, 2 Spitfires, a citroen Dyane, an Ami 8, 2 2Cvs, a series II Land Rover, Built a Lomax, Run a marina based kit car and am currently rebuilding a Moto guzzi.
Sh1t design is Sh1t design. What is the point of putting a tap under the bonnet when the rest of the world has discovered that controls can be placed on the dashboard!

And, by the way I love my Midget.

And the tap is seized solid!

So a raspberry to you Mr Biggs
J Mee

"I have ridden classic bikes all my life and have owned 3 Moggies, 2 Spitfires, a citroen Dyane, an Ami 8, 2 2Cvs, a series II Land Rover, Built a Lomax, Run a marina based kit car and am currently rebuilding a Moto guzzi.
Sh1t design is Sh1t design. What is the point of putting a tap under the bonnet when the rest of the world has discovered that controls can be placed on the dashboard!

And, by the way I love my Midget.

And the tap is seized solid!

So a raspberry to you Mr Biggs"



I hope it's 'aimed in my general direction' :-)

It's all good fun John ;-)


Cheers, John :-)
j b biggs

Of course it's seized solid now after you've emptied and refilled your coolant

could you perhaps as a tempory measure bypass the heater matrix, from stuck open tap to metal drop pipe and just have a bit of hose joining inlet and outlet of matrix together to save trying to drain it

I've always fancied the idea of a Lomax type car

I had a GT6 so I know you're going to find a Midget great fun on the road after Spits
Nigel Atkins

what's the issure here? is it that it's too hot in the car with the hood up on a sunny day? 'Cos that's easily sorted.... I find that with the foot vents shut (or the passenger one open if it's just 1 person) and the heater knob pulled out (flap shut), it's fine :)

though i did read somwehere that turning the heater tap off means that no.4 cylinder has a tendency to overheat as the coolant doesn't circulate round that end properly.

Haven't bothered with a tap at all on the K series build, if it's warm enough to have the heater off it's warm enough to have the hood down :)
Rob Armstrong

I'm with Rob and can't understand why some of you are in such a lather about such a small issue. I've never even bothered to try turning the tap off. If its not cold I have the heater knob fully out and me flaps open and then just adjust from there. I've never been too hot as if its dry in the sky the roof's always off anyway. Anyway its nice to have some heat available for the legs on those after-dark moonlit runs when there's a bit of a chill in the air. Best midget driving time in my book.
Matt1275 Bucks

Perhaps JOhn and I have heaters that fully work and give out a lot of heat - oooo, errr

Even my wife finds it too hot to have the heater on and roof up even in winter my heater can be too warm a lot of times

(roof up) I hate the heat on my head from having the flaps closed (I'm a short-arse with my nose near the screen) but if I open the flap on the passenger's side they get third degree burns on their right leg and foot

Having to stop the car to turn the heater on or off (there's nothing inbetween on mine) is a pain

Perhaps you lads don't travel with your partners and don't have these concerns

If turning the heater off causes problems with the longevity of the engine so be it nothing lasts forever and a driver who is very uncomfortable is more likely to have an accident in my opinion, engine or accident it's the engine every time for me
Nigel Atkins

hmm I suspect that those with too-hot heaters have poor rads and cooling systems and/or the air flap does not close properly. I used mine for a daily commute into London for 10 years way back when, and never experienced the problems quoted.
David Smith

This might just be a UK-US thin, buttttt ....

In the Spring I reroute the hoses so the
heater coil is out of the circuit. When
I turn on the "heater" and fan from the
dash, I get cool air and the #4 cylinder
continues to get coolant.

In the Fall I reroute the hoses so the
heater coil is in the circuit.When
I turn on the "heater" and fan from the
dash, I get warm air and the #4 cylinder
continues to get coolant.

works over here.
chuckc

Chuckc, when you reroute those two hoses together and leave that tap open, you are routing hot water back into your engine.

those two hoses (the heater in/out) should be either routed through a radiator (heater core) for cooling before being routed into the lower hose, or shut off.

Or, if you want to do what you are doing, but do it right, you need to tap into your TOP radiator hose so that the hot water from the rear of your head is cooled along with the rest of the engine's hot water in the main radiator (cool water goes into the engine at the bottom, and hot water comes out of the engine at the top).


Norm
Norm Kerr

David
- I think you suspect wrong in my case, because of things always going wrong just after I've done service and preventative work and not during or before my cooling system is very clean and keeps the engine too cold in winter whilst the heater remains very warm

The 4-LIFE coolant I used is called 4-NOW when it's in my cars

I've also backwards, forwards and sideways flushed then cleaned and backwards, forwards and sideways flushed the heater matrix on two separate occasions in two years

My flaps funtion well thank you :)

I also fitted an uprated heater motor and fan but that was a waste of time reaaly still hard to tell when the fan is on if both flaps are open

My previous Spridget also had a very warm cabin during winter use (again a daily car)
Nigel Atkins

Norm, thanks very much. You may have saved my
Spridget. Been doing this exact thing for about
20 years here in cool North Carolina (temps
in June over 90) with no probs, but I better
reform fast. Who knows that damage I may have done
in all this time.
chuckc

I think that the logic of routing the hoses as Chuckc does it is not specifically to cool the water coming from the rear of the cylinder head, but to give a better circulation of flowing water and avoid the possibility of any "stagnant" areas developing at that end of the block.

My guess is that in a properly circulating system the temperature difference of the water between the hottest points (head) and the coolest points (radiator outflow) is probably only a few degrees.

The effectiveness of the heater, as a heater, is very much affected by the thermostat rating that you use. I change mine - 82 in summer and 89 in winter. I generally only adjust the tap itself twice a year.
Guy Weller

No, wait wait, don't tell me ....

Back in the day a friend bought a new Sprite that had
NO Heater. But we could not close the heater
valve or we would risk overheating #4. So how
is that different from rerouting the hoses to
bypass the heater???
chuckc

Nigel I may have cracked it! I reckon my heater never cooked me because it was a bit sludged up and just nicely restricted, yours must be too clean ;-)
David Smith

All I wanted was a bit of control, is that too much to ask :(

I cannot see any difference in wanting to modify my heating system than tuning the engine, uprating suspension, pulling off bumpers, putting on chrome bumpers etc etc etc.
It's nothing to do with winging about classic cars, not loving my car, buying something I don't understand I just want to be able to turn the heat on if it is cold and off if it is hot, whether the roof is up or down, without having to stop and lift the bonnet.
I can't believe there isn't someone out there who hasn't made a modification to achieve this, as just about everything else has been covered.
But why? I don't know - because this is a perfect classic car just as it is and it seems that any modification is akin to heresy - unless it is anything else except the heater. :) !!!!!!!!!

J Mee

well there you go j mee, make the modification,market it then retire on the income it brings you.although i reckon most people are happy with it as it is. what it boils down to really though is its your car so what ever makes you happy do it.i just cant believe that a thread about a heater tap complant has gone on this long.lol
roy j

David
- yes my heater and cooling system may be too clean but it wasn't done by me out of choice or even me ballsing-up, a lot was just bad the luck the rest experts in their feilds doing poor work or making mistakes :rolleyes:

John
- I think a lot of these lads can't turn their taps off (or others on) because if they do they'll leak :)

I've no idea why this should upset so many but watch this go up

- I think a lot of the classic cars I've seen are really modified or custom cars, I known mine is, not even the rust is original on mine

I'm not sure they should be let into classic car meets or shows in fact I self regulate in this respect by avoiding them

I took a brand new MX-5 to a classic meet once you should have heardd the remarks behind my back, I did :)
Nigel Atkins

Sorry couldn't resist giving you lads a show of something sexy, soft po*n

wrrraaalh


Nigel Atkins

gosh guys, so much tension in this thread!

For the folks who want to control the heater from the inside, use a mini valve:

http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?ty=pb&pid=34140&title=

or

http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?ty=pb&pid=36692

for heaven's sake!


Norm "not clear about what all the fuss is" Kerr

":o)


Norm Kerr

Nor am I - coz within a couple of posts the answer was given - that you CAN get something ......!

Yes, mine leaks, and I've fitted several taps to try and stop this - so I don't much care anymore - if it's THAT cold (ie, too cold to drive without wearing so many clothes that you can't fit in!) then it's too dangerous to drive :)

As for control - of course - you can regulate it by not pulling the knob out so far!
rachmacb

You can use the remote valve kit to control the heater, or if you need to run the heater for extra summer cooling why not adapt the flap thingy and run a duct out one of the quartelight...... or duct it into the transmission tunnel and let it exit over the rear diffuser.
l snowdon

Just thought, it would be easier to disconnect the rubber pipe that feeds the screen vents and connect a duct onto there and then hang it out the window
l snowdon

I had no idea I would start such a kerfuffle! I just wanted to know if anyone had done it.
I'm getting really scared now, as I am sure I have got a host of other questions to ask.
J Mee

John
- don’t be scared, I’m having fun at least and others are being imaginative (too much in most cases) J

Alex
- looks like the opinion is divided and the only way you're going to know is to get a lift in a Spridget or similar with straight cut gears and hear the noise for yourself bearing in mind a 10 or 20 minute journey is only an idea of what it would be like to live with it full time

Rachel
- it's difficult to put across everything you want on forums without writing a novel I often forget the very important word ‘not’ which obviously reverses what I mean
Nigel Atkins

John have fun, join in and ask away

And expect as many different answers as you get replies

I quite agree if you want to modify it, go ahead, few of us (though there are one or two) have entirely "factory fresh" Spridgets, mine is certainly no trailer queen concours wunderkind.

My ordinary heater control valve has been known to leak so I disturb the darned thing as little as possible. The only reason for leaving it alone...

When next the engine comes out (between now and September to swap gearboxes) I may look to see if my remotely controllable valve gets to go in too

And it may well not come high up the revisions list, all depends.

have fun, like I said

bill sdgpm

Personally, I like opening the bonnet to turn the valve on & off...it gets lots of chuckles from passengers & onlookers!

Then, of course, the question: Is the heater cable broken? Then I explain: No, it's the factory set up & there never was any cable...more chuckles.

To me it's just part of the character & charm of these little cars. My grandkids laugh every time I go through the process!

If I'd wanted more comfort & convenience, I would have bought a Miata!

I just love these little cars the way they are & the only modifications I've made so far have been preformance related.

John, post more questions, it's fun!
Dave Rhine ('78 1500)

I find, unless it's REALLY cold, that the heat generated from having my legs stuck under an engine, along the gears, and with the exhaust a couple of cms under the passenger is plenty hot enough ...! Are you SURE that it's open and on - and it's not just those heat sources that you've got in the hot?

I'm not being rude - coz, at the end of the day, it's your car - do what you want with it - but, it would be a shame if you did something and hadn't thought of ALL of the options ...!

Not helps - except in the case of realtors I am discovering - rapidly!
rachmacb

This thread was discussed between 29/06/2010 and 03/07/2010

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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