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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - 'High Quality' new parts

As some of you may remember, I rewired my Frogeye last year. Since my combination ignition/light switch was quite a bit on the tatty side, I replaced that too. A few days ago the ignition part started acting up. I had to turn it "forcefully" to get it to work and occasionally it would shut off by itself. This morning I had to hold the key just to keep going. Try holding the key, shifting and using the turn signal while also driving. One thing that I learned a long time ago with these cars is that, if it still works, don't throw it away. I dug out my old switch, removed the old light knob and key ( 62 years of sitting attached to each other ), took out the new switch which of course involved removing the dash and three and a half hours later I have a working car again.

As Nigel keeps saying, new parts are rubbish. I would have gladly paid more and saved myself the aggravation of this afternoon. Moss and the other distributers should try to get better parts since I'm sure many of us would not hesitate to choose quality over low price.

End of rant.
Martin

Martin. Cheer up. My 79 MGB is on its 4th ignition switch in the 20 years I've owned it.

Cheers

Gary
79 MGB
Gary Hansen

Gary,

Not bad, one every five years. Mine lasted just over a year. I'm interested to see how much longer my 62 year old one will last. Not bad for having used the car as a daily driver for many of the 49 years I've owned it.
Martin

My '66 Sprite is still sporting all it's original switches, including ignition.

Martin, when/if your combined ign/light switch acts up again, take it apart and fix it. You may need a light modification to it, or it may just need cleaning. Both are easy to do, I did one for somebody a while back. Greg? Gave me an MGBGT mug? Anyway, I confess, I don't know if it's still going ( the mug is), but I think I have some pics of the switch internals, I'll look later. Seem to recall a bit of solder and a screw and nut to improve pressure on the ign' contacts.

Now why is this picture up the right way?



anamnesis

Martin,
it might be right that many of us would go for quality over price but that is not the case generally for classic vehicle owners who are tight-fisted and it doesn't matter to them as they barely use their classic or fleet of classics.

Many parts are crap and piss-poor including rubbish rubber but even when the likes of the large parts supplies offer better quality alternatives, often at not that much higher sales prices, they are outsold by many multiplies by the cheap crap piss-poor part, sometimes perhaps because of lack of knowledge but often because of tight-fistedness and greed.
Nigel Atkins

Anam,
perhaps you held the phone the wrong way and it's programming corrected it for you not realising it had accidentally given you what you wanted, there will be an update to correct this mistake in customer service I'm sure.
Nigel Atkins

Martin

I re-used all the Frogeye switches in the rebuild which are probably original, so 63 years old. They'd been standing unused for 40 years so had become "cruddy". I stripped/ repaired all of them. The ignition/ light switch seemed ok but had too much resistance. I found that the riveted connections needed solder to improve them but, not only that, I had to add solder internally to some contacts. I stripped it several times before I was happy with it which does tend to strain the metal clamps which you have to keep bending. But it's currently working OK! If you don't have relays for the headlights you're putting quite a lot of current through it which will cause heating if there's any contact resistance.
Bill Bretherton

Sorry, not Greg, it was CRISPIN. Well is was 6 or 7 years ago. Is it still working Crispin?

Anyway, here's some pic's of a frog ign/light switch. whole and stripped.

Note the centre, how it's held together. I changed that.






anamnesis

And then, where the weaknesses are.

I put a screw through the lot to increase the pressure. Nyloc nut.

Pretty sure I also did some soldering on the contacts Bill, but can't I don't have pictures of that.

Last Iheard it was still ok.





anamnesis

Anam

The nut is an excellent idea! I'll do that in the event of further problems.
Bill Bretherton

Just found my email to Crispin, explaining my findings Bill.

"I can see what's wrong. The spring's too weak to push those brass contacts together firmly enough. Partly this is because the nylon post that the spring and rotary contact sits on, is a bit loose in the bakelite. Not much that can be done about that as it's worn. But I reckon I can add metal to the contacts to make the switch properly again."

Then I must have had the screw and nyloc idea. Drilled through to take the screw. Can't remember the size, but easy to work when it's in your hand, what size you need.

Edit, yep I'm sure Nigel. LOL.

Note the switch pic's were taken on a proper old digital camera. Ha ha.
anamnesis

The problem was with the ignition part staying on. It made good contact, it would just spring anti-clockwise on its own shutting everything off. The lights worked fine. I'll have a look at it later since I wasn't in a proper mood yesterday.
Martin

Martin. Glad you kept the old switch. Many of the older parts were made of better quality materials than some (but not all) of the current parts. I would note that, some twenty years ago, I installed a new turn signal, high beam switch in my daughter's MGB, a 77. That "modern" part has lasted far better than the factory parts did. (I had to replace the same part twice in the five and one half years I owned a 79 B from new.) So, the concept that all parts made today are inferior to those made 40+ years ago is not necessarily true. Just as those who claim that classic car owners will not pay a lot of money for good quality parts never demonstrate the source of that claim. Like many owners of classic vehicles, I like to drive them and always purchase the best quality parts available, mostly regardless of the cost. I have never found a serious enthusiast who did not want good quality parts and who was not willing to pay a reasonable price for them. The "They are not willing to pay" argument is used by companies like Moss Motors (USA) who do not want to do quality control testing on their incoming inventory and, since the company making the parts does not do quality control, bad parts make it through the system along with the good parts and are not identified until the user finds out they are bad. Moss has supplied me with a great number of well made, quality parts at a fair price over the last 50+ years. But, some of the rare exceptions have been spectacular exceptions costing me several thousands of dollars.

Again, glad you saved the old switch. Les
Les Bengtson

The problem is that faced with two parts from different suppliers, both appearing to be the same, same part numbers etc but one cheaper than the other, why would you not go for the lower price? The fact that one supplier charges more is no guarantee of better quality.

I think the only thing you can do is find a reliable supplier, buy regularly from them do they are supported and if you do get a sub standard part then make a noise about it so the supplier knows of the problem and has a chance of putting things right.
GuyW

Les,
no has said all modern made parts are crap and piss-poor or rubbish rubber but many are.

And yes some (many?) modern made parts are better.

You may be like many classic owners and actually drive your car and always purchase the best quality parts available, mostly regardless of the cost. but you are not in the majority otherwise there'd be an alternative major supplier selling these parts. I can only talk of my 30+ years of driving various classics as dailies in the UK and buying parts during that time.

I thought you had things better in the USA and your Moss was better than our Moss Europe for parts quality.

There are many reasons why crap and piss-poor parts are sold and one of them is the cheap purchase price.

If you care to look at Moss Europe you will see they offer better quality alternatives along the crap ones, ask them how many of each they sell. They continue to sell them to clear their stock but will restock if the cheaper parts are selling well- that's customer demand.

I don't know how much you know about the vast quantity of different parts that are stocked or the purchasing quantities required and sales rate but the sales cost would rocket if the seller had to quality control at any deep level.

Bling parts always sell well and can be sold at higher prices giving volume sales and good profit margins but small essentials parts aren't bling so price sensitive.

If the Archives are checked, or even recent threads, over the models here you will see it's not just my personal whinge-fest others have the same complaints.

I don't just moan about piss poor parts, like others here, if I find good items and good supplier I promote them, you'll find this in many of my posts, saying what found to be goods, and bad, helps others who are interested in such things.

A list of the good quality parts you've bought and used over the last few years would be useful to at least those that can get them in the USA, and hopefully they might be available over here.

All the best.

Nigel Atkins

As many may know for some 17 yrs until recent times I was an area Rep for Kent Area midget & Sprite Club and also the Club enquiry line.

A lot of the times when people contact me about obtaining parts they tend to go for cheap over quality even after I explain the pitfalls of the poor quality parts.

I also make a superior clutch release bearing (not available in USA) but many baulk at the price opting for the modern cheaper poor quality carbon option and running the risk of having to pull the engine again to fit another one: at considerable cost if a garage is involved.

Alan.
Alan Anstead

Some parts aren't meant to last, I remember one of the guys on my engineering degree course saying he had worked for a switch company in Plymouth and they had a job for IIRC Ford and they made and tested some parts for durability and when the rep came round and heard how long they lasted he told them they couldn't last more than x 1000 cycles or they would never sell any spares. It's the same in many industries where OE products are sold at or below cost and the spares are where the money is made.
David Billington

David, it's called value engineering. You want it good, but not that good!

As to the price of parts and what people are prepared to pay, we've been spoilt in many ways by the cheap availability of bits and that's set our horizons. When I first started MGing the factory was still open and you'd go to your BL dealer for bits. The bits were very expensive compared with what they are now (adjusted for inflation), there wasn't the range, and as has been said the quality wasn't necessarily that good - why did you need to buy a replacement bit in the first place?

One of the issues now is that because the bits are so cheap many buy them because it's a marginal decision eg that original switch is a bit scratched and a new one's only a tenner, so let's buy new. I also drive a Riley without the same spares availability, and where it is, the price is much more expensive because there's not the quantity production. There you fix what you've got, and only buy when you really need it. Even then, the new item sometimes needs a little fettling to work. And whether you pay a lot or a little, rubber parts are often duff.
Peter Allen

This thread was discussed between 31/10/2021 and 02/11/2021

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.