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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Hood / Tonneau advice?

Hi All,
MG midget Mk III ( newbie )
I only want to have the half tonneau on my car - Its a dry weather drive only.I have taken off the soft top & the soft top frame whilst I am doing the last of my resto jobs on the car.

( If I was going to run with the soft top , it would need replacing as there is a small nick in it.)

My question is , should I re install the frame and hood & lay it down , should I put the hood frame only back , should I bin the frame totally ....basically, I would like some suggestions.
As I want to run in a half tonneau - can anyone recommend a supplier?
Thanks all
Colin
colin frowen

Hi Colin,

Don't bin the frame/header, they are a bit expensive to replace.

How bad is the "nick" in the roof? I might be interested.

As regards a tonneaux, you can get one near you, Partridge Green, from SUSSEX CLASSIC MG CAR PARTS - TEL 01403 711551.
http://www.sussexclassiccar.co.uk/shop_factory_hazel/enter.html

I've never bought a tonneaux from them, but they have a good reputation.

As you are adamant about only driving in the dry, I would save the weight and not fit the frame.

Shame though. Many people would think you are losing a lot of good driving time by being only a fair weather driver.

But hey, it's your car and call, and I wouldn't want to upset you, since I might want your roof. :):)
Lawrence Slater

Colin,
(newbie???)
I think you're looking for a tartan red, chrome wire wheeled MGB with tartan picnic rug and wooden dash and fitments :)
Nigel Atkins

Colin

The half tonneau looks best with the hood and frame under it. That's what it was designed to do.

If you want a good used half tonneau, I have a spare one.

Mail me... midgetbitz (at) gmail (dot) com

This is how it looks with the hood folded under it.


Dave O'Neill2

Hi Colin,
Even if you are intending to use your car in dry weather only, I would keep the hood & frame, they are expensive to replace...A car with a hood & frame will be easier to sell...Living in England it rains when you least expect it, so a having a hood can stop your car interior being ruined by an unexpexted heavy shower...If the hood has only a nick, you could patch it youself with a bit of vinyl, a needle and thread & some silicon to seal it...It may not look that good but it would keep the rain out & stop the inside of your car being spoiled.

Alan.
Alan Cotterill (1972 standard 1275 )

I say chaps, if Colin wants to lose the hood, please let him, I need a replacement. :).

But as I said, keep the frame.
Lawrence Slater

I think you're overstating it a bit your interior doesn't get ruined if you get caught with the hood down

if you're going over 40mph most of the rain goes over the car

I've been caught quite a few times in very heavy rain in different cars and even different countries no interiors got ruined some didn't even get that wet whiles one type of car with out roof and sidescreen/doors got very wet with water standing on the passenger seat but it all dried out - sometimes it could blow dry by continuing to drive to the drier weather

Nigel Atkins

I dont get it

Whats the point of having a half tonneau with no hood below it!?

Surely a full tonneau would be more practical in the situation

S G Macfarlane

Colin said.
"My question is , should I re install the frame and hood & lay it down , should I put the hood frame only back , should I bin the frame totally ....basically, I would like some suggestions."

So the suggestion seems to be, keep the frame and hood, as it's needed to pad out the the half tonneau.

Well if it's just for aesthetics, seems a bit overkill to keep it. Pad it out with foam instead.

Personally I would keep the hood and frame too, even if it is "nicked". You never know when there will be a shower.

However, as Nigel says. The car won't suddenly fall apart from rust due to a bit of rain will it. It certainly won't be ruined. So if Colin really doesn't want a top, why should he have one? Especially as I want his old one if the damage is small. :).





Lawrence Slater

I would keep both, would keep them attached, would drive the car in rain,... But all irrelevant as I am not Colin.

I imagine that if the hood was pretty much permanently folded up under the 1/2 tonneau it would eventually dry out and become permanently creased and spoilt anyway. So perhaps it makes sense to remove it and store safely. But the hood also provides the padding under the tonneau cover, without it the frame alone would make it lumpy and probably eventually wear through the tonneau. With the hood and frame removed it is neater and there is more space behind the seats but you may need to add some extra padding to maintain a good shape as in Dave's excellent photo. (except he has his windows wound up !! tut, tut!)
Guy

yes, but surely for aesthetics you would ditch the infernal contraption all together and go with a full tonneau which will also protect the interior from the odd shower


S G Macfarlane

Hi All
Thanks for your excellent suggestions & advice....still not totally sure what to do ..though that Full tonneau looks really cool.
I will have a beer or several & mull it over. IF I bin the hood & frame , I will post it up here first OK?
Thanks all
Cheers colin
colin frowen

Really.!

DON'T get rid of your frame and header. They are expensive to replace. You might change your mind, or might want to sell the car, and you'll lose money without the frame and header.

OK, dump the hood, if damaged, but keep the rest, even if you store it in a garage or loft. :)
Lawrence Slater

I agree with Lawrence keep hood frame and header rail, look up the price of both and see
Nigel Atkins

just to be clear - when I said "ditch it" all I meant was remove it and stick it in the loft - like the others say - certainly don't actually get rid of it.
S G Macfarlane

The full tonneau with the rails fitted and folded just behind the seats looks better than the half tonneau IMHO.

Bernie.
b higginson

until you start doing above 50 mph and it starts flapping about - or was that just mine

tonneau sticks would be required for full tonneau and without hood frame fitted the brackets would need spacing (but that's not difficult)
Nigel Atkins

Nigel
My full tonneau fits fine but it is a bit flappy at speed, I do not have the sticks and have never really understood how they fit or what they do, a picture would be gr8
S G Macfarlane

sorry I can't give you a photo as the tonneau was with my previous Spridget

basically the tonneau sticks are in two halves that you put together to go acroos the rear of the cabin

they slot into the brackets that are also used to secure hardtops, these brackets are bolted through the hood frame bracket into the car (just behind the seats)

their purpose I think is mainly to offer support when you have the full tonneau folded so that the driver, and passenger, has the tonneau pulled and cliped securely to to the rear cabin metal bottom panel behind their seats

this lets them sit in the seat and stops the tonneau from flapping about behind them

this also creates secure stowage areas on the back cabin area, i.e. nothing blows out

the sticks may also be to support the tonneau when its fully fitted against build up weight of water or to keep it stretched out anyway - I'm not sure

I hope you can follow all this I can't remember the proper names for some of the bits as I'm very old
Nigel Atkins

at the bottom of the thread on this page is a good photo showing the tonneau folded behind seats on an earlier B - http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?1,1839272

ETA: you'll need to stow your hood as per owners Handbook directions :)
Nigel Atkins

I use a full tonneau like Simons. When stowed it folds down like the one on the MGB that Nigel linked to, creating a zipped storage area behind the seats. Only mine doesn't have any "sticks", and I don't think it ever did have any. There are no brackets on top of the B posts for sticks to fit to.

When fitted over the whole car it keeps the interior pretty dry. I have been known to hunker down and shelter under it waiting for a summer shower to pass by. When fitted for driver only it does flap a bit, but not annoyingly so. The trick is to wind the passenger window up by just an inch or so and this stops the wind getting under the edge.
Guy

Guy,
you might never have had them but they were avaiable although you've proved it is possible to survive without them

see this page for later standard bracket - http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=1683

and this page for later sticks and bag - http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=1684

I'm not very tolerant of flapping and mine was from the centre were the zip is so by my left ear and I used to have the windows up an inch or so

S G,
you need to buy the tonneau for either of the two different types of headrests or no headrests - if with headrest you may need to adjust the headrest and seat postition to get the tonneau on properly, that annoyed me too
Nigel Atkins

I use a full tonneau all the time. Much less hassle than putting up the roof, offers a similar level of protection when parked, and if I put up the roof every time I parked I'd probably end up driving with it on half the time. No fun in that! I don't have any frame for it, and don't have any issue with it flapping unless I have the passenger side closed while driving (I'll have to try putting the passenger window up a tad, thanks for the suggestion Guy!). Just fold/roll it and poke it down behind the seat. I've never had any problem with it, but then I did get a lot of practise doing it with the tonneau on my fathers MGA from a very young age.
Andrew F

Nigel,
Interesting - I wonder if they all came with sticks like that. They seem to me to be a bit unnecessary - at least if you have headrests pockets which support the tonneau anyway. Also, on my tonneau the seatbelt zips aren't angled back like that, they run straight in from the edge with just a slight curve.

I agree with Andrew, I use the tonneau in preference to the hood if I need to cover up the car - at least in the summer. Its much quicker and no less secure. This time of the year is a bit different, the hood hasn't been off for weeks which for me is pretty unusual! The village weather station recorded only one day in the whole month of December when it didn't rain between 6am and 6pm.

Guy

Guy,
that photo is of an early B not a Midget so zips could vary

the sticks also help to keep the full tonneau tort when it is folded and clipped behind the seats

I think (can’t remember for sure) that having the tonneau cover over held some warmth in the car in summer, I’d sooner have the roof down with seats getting very hot or roof up with windows down (the only semi-secure thing is to keep things out of sight in the locked boot)

>>The village weather station recorded only one day in the whole month of December when it didn't rain between 6am and 6pm.<<
hey, now, c’mon, it didn’t rain continuously between 6 and 6 everyday – last Monday here were had hail and storm force winds that was in the morning, lunch time it was sunny and pleasant

Since the 1st of October (when a lot of owners start to SORN the cars) we’ve only had two or three days when it’s not been for at least part of the day reasonable driving weather, not always the best but acceptable and many have been excellent driving days

One morning for a couple of hours we had a dusting of snow, it had disappeared by 11am

Guy read the statistics and weep :) - http://www.northantsweather.org.uk/

Northamptonshire – some Deity or others country
Nigel Atkins

Pre-roll bar I used the full tonneau in half mode as described above all the time. With both sides over the sticks and secured behind the seats on the fastners there and with the zip to give access to the space created. I've never liked driving with the passenger side running the full length - I find it too high and annoyingly close.

Since adding a rollbar though I've gone to the basic hood cover only unfortunately.
Dean Smith ('73 RWA)

Nigel - yes I realised that your linked photo was an MGB - I said so in an earlier response. I was referring to the link you sent to the Moss catalogue. My tonneau is very taught without the use of the sticks, which is what made me wonder if all tonneaux were supplied with them. I suspect mine never had them as it didn't have the brackets either.

I also didn't say that it rained continuously between 6 and 6pm, just that on 30 /31 days there was some rain during daylight hours. The statistic for continuous daytime rain is 16/days for the month which is maybe worse!!. Its not always like that here - today is a good bright day and there are even some patches of blue! Even with a local annual rainfall of 62" I would still prefer here to Northants!
Guy

Sorry I don't know if the sticks came with the tonneaus I suspect not I thought the later cars came with the bracket though but I could well be wrong

if you don't need the sticks great less to store when not in use, the storeage bags were quite a rough affair IIRC

yeah, but, there's rain and there's rain, and are you in/near the lake district :)

in all but the weather I'd sooner be up with you but Northants is a great county for driving and places to see and go - better local beer too :)

I love a lot of the counties in England and those I don't still have a lot to offer, I also love the foriegn countries too, Wales and Scotland (personally disappointed with Ireland)

we are very lucky to live anywhere in this great country for all its many faults :)

we're seeing our friends from Cumbria in Northants in a couple of weeks time so it's bound to snow heavily as I always tell them about the sunshine here when they tell me about the snow/rain/gales there

until just now it was sunny here, you Cumbria lot do bring on the grey clouds :)
Nigel Atkins

I'm definitely in the full tonneau camp and enjoy driving it solo with the passenger side on. as Guy says, winding the window up an inch or two keep it from flapping. It's also great in the winter as it stays warm and toasty on the passenger side under the tonneau and sort of wafts in the direction of the driver!
I have a half tonneau and I think I've only put it on the car once just to see what it looked like. I don't have sticks either though have the brackets for them but the stowed tonneau is really taut when attached to the lift the dot fasteners on the rear footboard. Ive got tenax fasteners in place of velcro near the doors and this may make a bit of differrence to the flappiness.
Matt1275Bucks

Well there you go - I never knew that you were meant to fold and fasten the full tonneau with studs on to the rear footboard / bulkhead, now i know what those two weird (and up to now useles) flaps on the tonneau are for and why you would need the sticks. Ive always just stuffed it down behind the seats.
S G Macfarlane

I assume the others know this as they report the tonneau being tight without the sticks
Nigel Atkins

I have a spare frame if anyone does need one!!! Bought it and never used it
bk dyson

Guy. Which model is your car? If it's a mk2 Midget/mk3 Sprite, the tonneau sticks fit into the same place as the detachable hood frame, so it doesn't have brackets. If it's a later car I have got a set of tonneau rails that you are welcome to, I bought them on eBay to get the bag they came with, but mine is a mk3 Sprite and I already had the sticks, so the sticks I got with the bag are surplus. The sticks when fitted, make the cover that little bit more taught which stops the flapping. As I said, you can have the sticks but you would have to buy the brackets.

Bernie.
b higginson

Guy, I have spare brackets (FOC to you).
David Smith

Bernie, you have mail.

Guy
Guy

Thanks David, I may take you up on that!
I am not certain, but I think that many years ago I may have given you a ribcase gearbox. I know I gave it to someone from "down south" who called by to collect it on a return trip to Maryport I think it was. Was that you?
Guy

yup, not forgotten, still owe you!
David Smith

whilst checking on another full tonneau matter . . .

and I've no idea why I didn't think of this before . . .

in my MkIII owners (Driver's) Handbook -

Tonneau cover
Fitting. Assemble the tonneau rail and fit into the slots of the brackets provided on the hood fram hinge plates.

such a usefull book, loaded with information for potential, new and long standing owners :)

Nigel Atkins

I think the sticks and brackets would have been supplied if the car was ordered with a tonneau cover from new.

If the owner were to purchase a tonneau at a later date, he/she may well have not bothered to buy the associated bits.
Dave O'Neill2

There were some used tonnau sticks on Ebay the other day. Sorry I didn't take a note of where, but they were pretty cheap I think.
Lawrence Slater

Are these the ones, if anyone is still looking for tonneau sticks for?

http://tinyurl.com/77omy43
Lawrence Slater

Those are the ones for Midget Mk2/Sprite Mk3.

Midget Mk3/Sprite Mk4 are different and also require the additional bracket which mounts to the hood frame hinge mount.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MGB-MIDGET-HARDTOP-MOUNTING-BRACKETS-/380397833445
Dave O'Neill2

Dave,
those brackets are for lifting the engine out





joke (from a previous eBay listing)

could those brackets have been factory fitted on the cars with fold down hoods whether or not a full tonneau was ordered, does anyone one know or remember for sure?
Nigel Atkins

Nope Nigel, those brackets are for fixing the hard top down. I've got exactly those on mine.

The brackets you are thinking of are heavier duty than that.
Lawrence Slater

These are engine lift brackets.


Lawrence Slater

Lawrence,
the hoist brackets was a joke
Nigel Atkins

The brackets Dave put up are for the hard top (as shown in the owners Handbook) and also for the tonneau sticks

I know because with my last Spridget I took them off the car and gave them away as I knew I'd never have a hard top - then when someone gave me an original full tonneau because he loved the fact I used my Spridget so much (only a 60 mile commute to work then and no customer travelling for customer visists) I had to try and find the brackets to use the tonneau sticks, I think you could only get the brackets s/h then but might have remember wrong as I also can't remember where the sticks and bag came from
Nigel Atkins

And I was humouring you Nigel. :)
Lawrence Slater

I'm not so sure about the brackets also being for the tonneau sticks


but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt :)
Nigel Atkins

Well someone on this BBS has VERY generously given me a set of tonneau sticks for my Austin Sprite. Brilliant Bernie! So now all I need is a pair of the fixing brackets. Anyone? And I promise not to use them for lifting engines with!! ;-)
Guy

offer still stands Guy, consider them yours. Just need to get out there in the cold and find a pair; meanwhile can you email me an address please (well not any old address, yours would be best!). midget1380 btinternet dotcom
David Smith

or pulling legs

if you're really stuck they're AHA8082
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 06/01/2012 and 16/01/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.