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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - How do I counteract this?

You may not be able to tell from the picture but the front will on the passenger side tilts towards the engine bay from the top. What do I need to adjust in order to get it to line up vertically like the driver side front wheel?


DLW

Have you tried new bushings?
Trevor Jessie

Mh, looks like the anti roll bar is crooked also, looks like the right hand side beam is higher?
Alex G Matla

Im with Alex, the anti RollBar is defenetly in need of replacing, not so sure on the beam tho..
- Swap frontsprings: driverside to passenger and passenger to driver.
- are both frontsprings 1500 or perhaps driverside 1275?
Arie de Best

Hmm... looks like the front chassis rail on (USA) passenger side is out of position... that might account for the negative camber appearance of the wheel on that side too...

What is history of car?

In simpler terms (if that's OK) the:

- chassis on the passenger side looks bent
- the front chassis rails should be parallel and sweep up a little at the front
- on the standard car, the wheels should appear directly upright/vertical when viewed from front of car with wheels pointing directly ahead
- some of the apparant wheel-splay might be down to worn joints in the suspension... but it looks to me like something more than just that
- sorry if I'm bearing bad news; you should have the car looked at by someone who's familiar with the design; or compare it with one next to it that appears to be straight
- it's all repairable!

A
Anthony Cutler

It appears that your car may have some frame damage in the front area. Looks like the right side front frame horn is pointed more upwards than the left causing the sway bar to be at an unusual angle. Normally that type of camber is caused by worn out bushings both in the lower A arm pivots as well as the upper trunion bushing, but that wouldn't explain the strange shape of the sway bar.
Bill Young

You guys are discerning a lot from a single photo with shadows. Not saying there isn't frame damage, but I've seen many midgets that simply need the front suspension rebuilt to correct such issues.
Trevor Jessie

Trevor, from what i have learned on my years of midget ownership is to asume the wurst so from there things can only get better.
Usaly its something very simple ofcourse.

Also possible that the problem may not be on the passengerside but on the driversside?
Arie de Best

Something definately looks odd. Seems to me the anti-roll bar is actually bent, as the front of the chassis rails look fairly square to the bottom of the front panel. The anti-roll bar mounts look a different shape too.

The car looks slightly higher at the right-hand side (ie. the left in the picture).

First thing I would do is take off the anti-roll bar and see if a) it's bent and b) see if the car sits more level without it.

Cheers, Matt
Matt

Or use "the dutch sports pack" to level the car.


Alex G Matla

Hard to really tell by the photo, but it looks to me like the right hand sway bar mount (left in photo) is different from the right...it almost looks like a u-bolt is holding the right in postition and the proper mount on the left.

It also looks like the right hand tow hook is bent up and back and the sway bar is bent, I would think the right side has hit something, tweaking the mount and bar...I'm with Matt...take sway bar off and see what happens.
DL Rhine

Upon closer inspection the front frame section of the main beam on the passenger side is bent upward about an inch so the sway bar is bent up about that much also on this side. I guess at this point I need to have a new passenger side front frame section welded in place and a new sway bar put on. But would new bushing correct some of the issue with the tilting wheel or is all of this contingent on the front frame section and the sway bar being repaired? Not really something I was looking forward to after finishing the engine. From the looks of it that passenger side front frame section is also attached to the A-arm :(


DLW

The front frame section of the main beam on the passenger side is bent upward about an inch so the sway bar is bent up about that much also on this side. I guess at this point I need to have a new passenger side front frame section welded in place and a new sway bar put on. But would new bushing correct some of the issue with the tilting wheel or is all of this contingent on the front frame section and the sway bar being repaired? Not really something I was looking forward to after finishing the engine. From the looks of it that passenger side frongt frame section is also attached to the A-arm :(


DLW

Your problem is extremely simple to fix...You need new rubber buffer stops that the lever arm of the shock sits on top of...some say there cars doesnt ride on top of them, mine do, I cant speck for the others..for $6.00 its worth a try...do both sids...infact have a look, if the rubber ttringle block is squeshed...you need new ones

Its part Number 2 in the moss catolog....its ither worn out or missing, it took me a year and several months to figure that one out,,,it will correct it when you put the new ones in, it did mine. in the mean time dont drive it to much, as it will wear on your wheel bearings...IMHO


http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29294


Prop
Props Black Hole

On second thought ...that chassis rail does look a little bent up as you mention in the photo...I guess I should have read a little more closer rather then skim the text.

A good frame shop in an autobody store can pull that out into place where its supposed to be...Id certianly have them take a look, some of those guys can work magic, certianly cheaper and easier then cutting out and rewelding another section back in. and having to pull the engine and re-install

Prop...I always wanted to be named kansas Jack...Prop

http://www.kansasjack.com/
Props Black Hole

Mate
Eyes and photos can play tricks.
The best thing you can do is ask around near where you live and find out where the best wheel aligner shop is and take your car there and get it measured up properly. If you can find a wheel alignment place that does a bit of racecar work all the better. Explain your problem and they should be able to measure it up for you and pinpoint exactly where the problem is and then you can take it home or wherever and fix it. Willy
WilliamRevit

Some comments based on experience; yeah, there appears to be some frame damage. But my car used to exhibit the same wheels-leaning-in-at-the-top problem, and it was all down to perished rubber bushes in the upper kingpin and the inner trunnions; where the A-arm connects to the chassis. Bush failures at those locations add up to enough free play that the suspension sags and allows the wheel to collapse inward at the top. New bushes - and I used polyurethane - made a world of difference.

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

Thanks Gryf and others that suggested the same thing.

This appears to be my exact problem. I've since found out that I have play in my king pins also. Is it possible to redo all the kingpin stuff without taking off the springs? Essentially, I want to leave the inner sections of the A-arms connected to do the job because those bushings are fine. But may just do them also anyway since I'll have to do all the other work.

D
DLW

You can attend to the king-pin bushes without removing the road-spring; but you need to put a jack under the wishbone springpan to keep the spring in tension, as you're going to be undoing the castelated nut on top of the kingpin (the spring is held in tension with the car jacked up by the damper-arm bump-stop).

You should remove the calliper(s) first BTW.

With the nut removed and the damper arm lifted away (keep those small spacer washers as well as the scintered trunion bush) you can pull the hub up and off the kingpin. Did I mention disconnecting the track-rod end? You'll figure that one!

Take a good look at the exploded diag of the front suspension (see Moss and other catalogs) and you'll see that it's all reasonably straightforward.

A
Anthony Cutler

Looks to me as if the car ran to a curbstone at the wrong side of the wheel.

The picture could decieve but it realy looks as if the swaybar busted into the front chassisrail and dented it seriously. As far as the angle of the picture can tell it even looks like there is no upward bend into the rail anymore due to that impact. But as said pictures can decieve.

I would say put a jack under the front crossmember (with a piece of wood of course) and put a level ontop of the front chassisrails. I'll bet they arent the same height anymore.

Bas
Bas Timmermans

This thread was discussed between 25/08/2009 and 03/09/2009

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