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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Identifying Toyota T50 Gearboxes

Hi there,

My Mk1 midget had a T50 5 speed gearbox fitted to it when I bought it many years ago. I was told at the time that the gearbox had come from a RWD Toyota Twin Cam - the type beloved by the "doughnut" brigade.
The Midget is now being extensively rebuilt & the T50 box has also been dismantled. It could do with bearings, synchros etc to freshen it up.
My problem is that the gearbox is not from a RWD Twin Cam & even an experienced Toyota mechanic cannot identify which model of Toyota it came from. The only number I can find on it is "13696" which means nothing to the Toyota main dealer here in N Ireland.
Can anybody help with identifying the gearbox & a source for spares/
Any assistance would be much appreciated.
Regards
Robert Holmes
w r holmes

Hi Robert,
The gearbox is probably from a Celica or Corolla. Can you post a photo?
Spares are now largely unavailable and a spare box maybe the only source. Bearings should be OK from equivalent lists and some gaskets and seals could still be obtainable.
This link should help with part nos etc

http://www.toyotapartszone.com/Page_Product/PartDetail.aspx?model=COROLLA&year=1983&catalogCode=191410&VAID=312,3059&selectConditions=(8=USA;3=SED;5=MTM;6=5F;7=2D)

Further info from
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/phil.bradshaw/transmission.htm

Cheers
Derek Stewart

Robert:

Here's a pic from below of the T-50 in my 1982 Corolla. I can post more if needed.

Richard


Richard Reeves

Are you sure thats not the aussy toyota 5 speed box i want to say its called a ... T2/T3

The T50 was aussies way to hook up a 5 speed to a 1500

Prop

Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Here you go....

this is the company that makes and sells the toyota T2/3 and the T50 5 speed conversion kits

http://www.dellowconversions.com.au/index.html

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

People seem to use "T5" or "T50" for all 5 speeds, Toyota or no.
But, it is a real Toyota designation, for a particular box.
The T50 is easy - it is the only one that has an all aluminum case, split lengthwise on a diagonal. Separate bell housing, in several forms.

Stolen of the web long ago:
"1. The Spilt-Case alloy 5 speed. 28kgs, excellent for anything up to 1600cc's. Found behind any 2T or 3T toyota engine. Strong and light but not up to really high power 4 cylinders. Great behind crossflow escorts and anglias, datsuns and MG's etc
Gear ratios: 1st 3.58:1, 2nd 2.02:1, 3rd 1.38:1. 4th 1:1 and 5th 0.86:1"

T40 is the same, except it is a 4 speed, so the rear case is slim, having no 5th gear bits inside. T40 tends to be from earlier cars, but it is the same basic box, so might be worth cannibalizing if necessary.
(You could buy a kit from the dealer back then to convert your T40 to T50)

T50 came in various 4 cylinder (2TC/3TC) cars, as option or standard, from about -72-on. 78-82 Corolla are most common in the US, but Aus used them in Celica too, where US cars (R engine)got W50. After Corolla went FWD, T50 was used in various 4AG engined (DOHC) RWD cars (different names in different markets).

The W50 is a great cast iron lump, bulletproof HEAVY. Subsequent W5* have aluminum cases, but they are segmented, not lengthwise split.

Places worth looking:
http://www.club4ag.com/
http://www.4age.net/

I do not know if this is real or they just talk more, but Aussies seem to be far more involved and knowledgeable about these than anyone else - and they seem to have more parts.

FRM
FR Millmore

Forgot this:

http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/manual_transmission_overhaul_kits/toyota_car_manual_transmission.html

I expect your Toyota mechanic and dealer have not long nor grey enough beards!

FRM
FR Millmore

Celica boxes - later model on the left


Derek Stewart

Corolla box


Derek Stewart

Corolla box with A series bellhousing


Derek Stewart

Hi there,

Thank you all for the replies.

I don't have a photo of the complete gearbox unfortunately, just the internals & one of the bellhousing. However ebay item no 230795025707 looks very similar. The gearbox is in Australia which would appear to confirm Mr Millmore's comments.
From my internet searches I have discovered that there are at least two types of T50 alloy 5 speed boxes. Externally the output shaft can either have 20 splines (early) or 22 (late). Also the input shaft can either have 62mm diameter bearing (early) or 68mm (late). My gearbox has the 62mm bearing which would appear to indicate it is the earlier type - I haven't yet counted the splines on the output shaft.
Another difference is the hole for the gearlever -on my gearbox ( and the one for sale on ebay ) it is angled downwards but on others it is level.
To add to my confusion Toyota appear to have different model names for the same car depending on which country it was being sold in. For example -what is an AE86 RWD Twin Cam Corolla in the UK/Ireland I think is called a Levin in the US/Australia.
However if anyone can identify my gearbox as having come from a particular model it would be a fantastic help.
Many thanks again.

Robert Holmes
w r holmes

Derek-
Those are all T50, albeit with different bell housings, so I guess UK cars also got them in Celica. As stated, it seems all US Celica had W50.
The Celica ones you show have R bellhousings, and the "Corolla" one is a 4AG bell housing.
Note that it is typical of Toyota to have multiple bell and rear housings and/or remote shift towers for any basic box.
Also typical for Japanese manufacturers to use different names for the same car, or different cars for the same name, in different markets, at different or the same times!

FRM
FR Millmore

Hate this 5 min edit thing - it just eats your correct/add, so you have to write it again!

Robert-
Stepped on you.
<Most of what you say I just covered.
Yes to two bearing sizes, and yes to spline count. Spline change about 1980, with the change from 2TC to 3TC.
If you have early bearing size, I think you have 20 spline.
For parts purposes, these should be definitive, car doesn't matter.
See the link I gave re parts.

FRM
FR Millmore

This thread was discussed on 02/07/2012

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