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MG Midget and Sprite Technical Ignition settings.... again..... BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Ignition settings.... again.....
| Chaps Head now swapped with Metro head - bigger inlet valves, single spings, no water pump bypass. Needle swapped out on HIF44 from BDL to BDK 123 ignition on setting 5 (30 deg max advance) and rotated fully clockwise ie advanced. This simply on the basis of producing the highest revs at a partial throttle setting with no pinking. Idle screw reset to suit. However, when I rotated the dizzy, I noted that there were possibly further revs to be gained at this partial throttle setting - but unfortunately I had reached the end stop or whatever of the CW rotation of the dizzy and could advance no more using this method. Therefore Would it be worth resetting the 123 to 33 deg max advance and fine tuning again by roating the dizzy using the above method - best revs at partial throttle with no pinking. I am sure one P Burgess would be the ideal soltion, but as I reside in the Tundra and have no strobe..... Secondly, why is the advance apparently so much different than beforehand?...Gasket like for like replacement, and volumes in the head were almost indentical. |
| Mark O |
| ((( but as I reside in the Tundra and have no strobe..... ))) This is one of those statments that really gets under my skin as I just dont understand the logic....and the key words to the problem are just brushed over in few meaningless words as possable to the point of being almost invisable...aka ( have no strobe ) Why not just come out 1st thing and say... i dont have a timming gun and im tunning this dynamically using my eyes to blink super fast to see the timming marks You spend $350 for a really cool, highly tech advanced dissy, that if adjusted incorrectly will destroy your $5000 engine but yet cant or wont spend $12 for a timing gun or even make the attempt to borrow one from a friend or neibor I just dont know what to say to that, and its so common, Its no longer worth my time to ridicule people that do this. I just sigh and scratch my head in dis belief Contrary to popular opinion, you cant use your eyes to blink fast enough to properly time the engine by just looking at the timing marks and dynamic timing is only used to get the engine started not to do a proper day to day drive timing Please know, my criticism is not or no longer just to be an arrogant butt wipe, but I just dont understand they why of no timing gun to install a dizzy, esp as cheap as they can be purchased for Back to the point at hand... before any progress can be made, you will need a strobe timming gun. And we will be more then happy to help in any way we can Love you Mark O, and thank you for owning a midget Prop |
| Prop and the Blackhole Midget |
| Amazon delivers in the tundra too... and at only £17 this is the essential tool to do the job, just as Prop says http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ignition-Timing-Strobe-Light-Inductive/dp/B00BQ9UY6E/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1425320592&sr=1-3&keywords=timing+strobe And on the 123 you can choose the advance curve - did you read the instructions? |
| dominic clancy |
| Mark Where is Grampian are you? Eurocarparts have an Aberdeen branch and sell timing lights from £10 as well as doing mail order: http://www.eurocarparts.com/timing-lights Also http://www.frost.co.uk/search/?q=Timing+light www.holden.co.uk Cheers Mike |
| M Wood |
| Chaps My intention was indeed to adjust the 123 to the higher advance curve - setting A or something like - to give 33 max advance rather than the current 30, then fine tune by moving the dizzy. I have no strobe as I have no idea what the BTDC should be! - This unknown is compounded by all the mods done, but 30-33 advance seems to give good performance. It is thus a bit of trial and error in finding exactly where between those two settings the optimum lies. |
| Mark O |
| as you say Mark, the actual timing setting is kind of irrelevant as long as you aren't nuking your engine, but if you need a strobe I have two. do you have a vac advance? could be active on partial throttle adding another parameter into the mix. have you given it a "proper" run at this new setting. it might be that it works well at this specific rpm and throttle setting but not at full throttle or some other condition. you may need to balance performance across the range of conditions. Malcolm |
| M Le Chevalier |
| Mark, Sell the 123 and fit a standard dizzy with electronic trigger unit and this:- http://www.accuspark.co.uk/Blackbox.htm You can then tweak the advance to match your engine's requirements. Best of.... MGmike |
| M McAndrew |
| Chaps chaps chaps The 123 is fine to adjust ...really. As I say, I simply adjust to the nearest curve I think will suit the engine, then tweak by rotating thereafter. My question was attempting addressing which curve to select A strobe would be the way to go....but but but, I have no clue as to what the BTDC should actually be., and thus have no clue where the strobe should be set..the engine being fairly well modified over standard. Thus my policy is to set to the best possible curve ...now set to 9.....warm up the engine, adjust idle screw to about 2000 rpm, and rotate dizzy until best rpm achieved. Give the old a girl a blast up my local test hill, see if it pinks, if so, retard slightly by turning dizzy ACW, lock clamp nut....enjoy..... |
| Mark O |
| Sounds like as good a way to set the timing as any :-) |
| M Le Chevalier |
| Best set timing at say 4000 rpm with strobe so you know where you are at then mess with different curves and/or slight tweaks advance/retard on each curve. Otherwise you are weeing into the wind as no known starting point. Peter |
| Peter Burgess Tuning |
| .....but Peter, given the extensive mods I have what is the BDTC/strobe setting @ 4000? |
| Mark O |
| whatever the 123 says...probably 30 if you choose the 30 max and probably 33 if you choose the 33 max. That's why you need adjustable strobe light. Peter |
| Peter Burgess Tuning |
| Peter I am not doubting the 123 and thus I don't need to check it with a strobe. The question is what should the igntion timing be set at - as a reasonable start point - ie the deg advance BTDC, so I can set the 123, or if reverting to points a strobe, then fine tune. Clearly as my engine is modified, it will not be as per any handbook. |
| Mark O |
| The reason for setting it at revs with a strobe is to set it accurately, it is not worth doing it at idle to be honest as there are too many variations on a theme. It may also surprise you to know dizzies do not always do what the say on the box so timing needs verifying esp at revs where one can do damage. Peter |
| Peter Burgess Tuning |
| mark Malcome offered you one of his two guns, im not sure if he means to barrow or sell, but please take him up on the offer I think the confusion your having is not understanding the differance between curve and the actual firing moment (timing degrees) I think the regular 123 dissy has 16 differant curves As an example #1 curve may fire at 9d @1000, then fire at 22d @ 2000 and 35d @ 4200rpm On curve #8 setting the dissy may fire at 12d @ 1000rpm then 26 degrees @2000 rpm and 45 degrees @ 4500 rpm This is why its so essential to have a timing gun and a.good accurate rpm tach gauge This way you set it in the genral area of opperation then fine tune it from there This is not the most accurate djscription without writting a book...try youtube or googling dissy curve for a general description But I think without a timing gun, you have no refrance for where you have been, and where that can lead you Btw... the reason you have alot more ump in the drive way and not on the road ...is load, when the engine is pulling the car its under load, that will have a natral advanced effect on load and yet look retarded when the car is sitting still Basically you want to think of the dissy curve in 3 rpm settings as to where.the engine fires the fuel at a certain postion of the piston travel... 1000 rpm, 2000 rpm and 4000 rpm (sometimes 4500 if you got a really long curve) If the BBS, decides to crucify me for my understanding of this concept ...please dont call me jesus....hahaha Prop Prop |
| Prop and the Blackhole Midget |
| Also to add to my above comment...the springs determine how fast/slow the firing moment occurs at the 3 differant rpm ranges The more modified the engine the slower you want the springs to move as it relates to fuel burn time aka octane A high octane rating means the fuel burns much slower then a lower octane. This is why hydrogen can be used in a reg engine the burn time is superfast so has a low ocatane rating and yet wood smoke can run an engine because the burn time is super slow if placed under enough compression (youtube it) Timing and curving really is a facinating topic for the geeky kids smoking in the boys room Prop |
| Prop and the Blackhole Midget |
| Sorry... hydrogen CANT BE USED ...NOT hydrogen can be used Prop |
| Prop and the Blackhole Midget |
| Peter, You say: I am not doubting the 123 and thus I don't need to check it with a strobe. That sounds like you think that if you pick a curve for the 123 that offers 30 degrees of advance, you can then install the distributor and the engine will have 30 degrees of advance. If that is what you are thinking, you are not right. Setting the distributor to give 30 degrees of advance means that it will add 30 degrees to the point at which you install it. If you had points you could do static timing, but I am thinking the 123 doesn't have points so I don't know if you can time it statically. Charley |
| C R Huff |
| Sorry, I meant Mark rather than Peter. I suppose you figured that out. Charley |
| C R Huff |
| Charlie, I was wondering about the same interpretation... but id think to be able to get that additional 30 degrees of advance of add on, he would need to re gear the dissy by several teeth or else he would run out of physical room to turn the dissy ???? Prop |
| Prop and the Blackhole Midget |
| Charley, I guessed you meant Mark, I was trying to explain to him I set the timing at 4000rpm to be 30 if I am using a 30 degree max advance 123 curve, that way I know I am at 30 if the timing TDC marks are correct, quite often we check with TDC on 1/4. One needs a datum point. If I change to say a 33 curve I reset the dizzy to 33 at 4000 with the new curve. When I used to guess timing by thrashing my car u the road I used to blow out core plugs! I am safer with my rolling road! Peter |
| Peter Burgess Tuning |
| Gents I shall try and explain one last time then I will give up. I am fully aware of the flexibilty of the 123, how to use a strobe and yes, you can set a 123 statically. The question is What is the dynamic ignition setting for my engine? If Peter suggests 30@4000 - fine...that is where I started out, but I feel I could get a bit more, and am canvassing opinion as to where I could reset the dizzy to obtain a touch more.... Without knowing the dynamic setting I have no chance to set the 123 or the strobe - no reference point if you will. Without knowing this, it is simply trial and error. |
| Mark O |
| Without knowing this, it is simply trial and error. That is a about right without a rolling road To try and answer your question. And its a 2 parter You probably have 4 or 5 curves (settings) that are 4000 rpm at 30 degrees and appear to be the same ... but there not, they will have variations in how they perform some...so try each setting and your correct, its trial and error if you dont have a rolling road Various types of strobs perform differantly On mine it is an adjustable strob, what I do,I have an engine timing tape that is glued to the timing pully, and I have a pointer...I can adjust the strob to the degree I want aka 30 degrees and just the dissy so that the pully markslines up with the pointer, while running the engine up to 4000 rpm And whola... im now set at 30 degrees at 4000 rpm Try it, and see if the car runs great if not try another setting (curve) The reason for the stronger |
| Prop and the Blackhole Midget |
| Mark, setting the 123 statically is not accurate, one can be +/- 5 degrees with no effort at all, that is why I say the only way is to buy a strobe which dials in the advance measured at say 4000 rpm when the max advance has been reached, in your case 30 degrees if that is the curve you are using. We have tried several of the accuspark sp8000 strobes and they have been very good. http://www.accuspark.co.uk/tools.html Peter |
| Peter Burgess Tuning |
| Not sure if this will help. Here some reading. http://www.tdcperformance.ca/tuning_guide.htm http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/advance_curves.htm Prop seems on his game with this thread. Mr Burgess is definately knowledgable on the subject, what ever you can glean from him would be indespensable. Charlie Huff always answers with good old fashion sence and reliability. Looks like you are in good hands Mark. 8-) |
| Steven Devine |
| Mark You mention that you have 30deg but want to know where to set the dizzy to get more #1 question-Why do you want more, If you havn't had it on the rollers there is no way of knowing what the max. advance setting for your engine is 30deg is a good safe max for a non dynoed car Maximum advance is not maximum power The best max advance is the least amount of advance you can run without losing power Same with setting ign timing in the driveway, it's not a case of max is best A good way of setting idle timing is to move the dist up to get max idle speed and then pull it back till revs just start to drop off -- depending on your comp. ratio camshaft etc this could be anywhere between 8-18deg Once you have this set and roadtested for low speed driveability and proven your setting, WITHOUT using higher revs then and only then will you know how much advance you will need in your distributor to get 30deg total advance OR get it dynoed willy |
| William Revit |
| Chaps I think I undestand what Peter is getting at...dial in 30 at 4000, and rotate dizzy so timing marks coincide. Mark up dizzy position relative to clamp and try out the 4 curves on the 123 with 30 at max for optimum mid range - replacing the dizzy at the exact same point relative to the clamp each time. However What BTDC at 4000rpm to start from - 27/30/33 or even 36, without having the luxury of Mr Burgess' rolling road.....It may be that 30 is not the optimum advance setting for my engine....plus 30 on the strobe may not necessarily be 30 on the 123........ Thus, thinking a bit more, I am inclined to set dizzy as follows Note position setting on dizzy - lets say position 6 which supossedly is 20 deg at 2000. Set idle screw to 2000 rpm Rotate dizzy ACW/CW until best revs obtained Test drive up steep hill Note pinking If pinking occurs, back off a smidge Once done, mark up relative position of dizzy and clamp to use as reference point. This is a reasonable optimum setting of dizzy at mid range. Waht you can then do is consult the 123 charts and see which curves also (more or less) have a 20 deg BTDC at 2000. You could then play around with these particular curves - which may have a corresponsing higher or lower max advance, and see which is best, replacing the dizzy exactly as previous of course. I have thus established an reasonably optimum reference point for the engine and have a selection of max advance settings with which to fine tune further. Curve D for example....keeps the same mid point reference of 20 as 6, but max advance is much greater..... |
| Mark O |
| Ouch mark, Your getting there... but playing a little to deep in left field I wouldnt mess with the mid range setting of 2000 rpms, if your 2 advanced you can do some terriable damage to the engine at the upper end of the rpm range Id do all the tunning at between 4000 and 4500 rpm and not mess with the 2000 or 1000 rpm setting until your at a place and time with the cash to do a proper rolling road dyno...its alot easier to trash the engine at 4000 rpm then at 800rpm Yes and no on linning up the timing marks...if the engine is stock you would crawl under the car with a timing gun and find the 10 degree mark on the bottom of the timming cover and flash the strobe timming on the harmonic pully and have an assistant adjust the dissy till the marksine up then lock down the dissy ....and yes its as dangerous as it sounds On a modifed engine like you have most make up a pointer and recut a timming mark on the pully that lines up with the pointer at TDC...then uses a timming gun like peter burguss suggested Note... I got a gun just like it, and hot wired a small rpm tach gauge onto the side so I can read the rpms while watching the strobe I cant say for certian... but I think there is a 30 degree setting on the timming tab on the timming chain cover You can also get timming tape to mount to the crankshaft pully and use a pointer with it as well and use a cheap timing gun to easily adjust the timming I think you can get a pointer/tape kit at your "distributor doctor" we have a guy known as the "advance distributor" that sells a kit for around $20 usa I used a high quality clear packing tape over the top to protect the degreed timming measuring tape... its been on for 7 years and has worked perfectly Just a thought... is there a local hot rod club in your area or even a classic car club, the info we are talking about is certainly confusing, im pretty sure im the guy that cause bill young his butt cancer going over this time and time and time agian, it took more then a few months/ years for this concept of engine timming to soak into the gray brain matter |
| Prop and the Blackhole Midget |
| Prop 100% agree Timing marks on the pulley with a timing tape or marked out and a timing light are minimum requirements Playing around setting timing at 2000 and guessing the max on someone else's figures is sketchy and inviting disaster willy |
| William Revit |
| Gents Lining up timing marks etc is fine provided you know what advance to set it to. I don't, so I have to revert to other methods. Prop may have a point - good Lord, did I really say that - but I think I can determine any pinking as a result of too much advance and thus retard if necessary. Setting at 2000 is absolutely fine. I have done many bikes this way by simply moving the baseplate to obatin best possible revs. Granted it is not ideal at all revs but the mechanical advance makes a good fist of things further up the revs. Regarding the 123 - it is somewhat irrelevant where you set it at 2000 - as the actual advance will not be what it will say it is on the curve. The point is that the actual advance will though have a relationship with the setting and hence why you need to maintain that relationship by only using those curves which have a similar setting at 2000 if further fiddling to obtain optimum max advance is required. |
| Mark O |
| And with all this discussion and fiddling around with the ABCs of the 123, in persuit of the 'optimum' advance, I'll bet you won't achieve any more reliability or bhp, and make your Spridget go any faster, than if you put a 25D4 back on with a set of points and a condensor, unless you take it for an RR session. And even then, who knows? ;). |
| Lawrence Slater |
| I would tend to agree Lawrence - apart from the reliability bit. The exercise is somewhat academic, but all part of the ownership experience. One can go too far though... |
| Mark O |
| It's a myth that points and condensor(capicitor) aren't reliable. But yep you're right about the ownership experience going too far though. 1977 to 2015, and still bloody counting, and then I went and bought another of the things in 2012. Must be raving bonkers. lol. |
| Lawrence Slater |
| I am a fan of the original set up for normal use. I think the reliability issue has arisen from rubbish aftermarket points/coil/condenser which fail. |
| Bob Beaumont |
| Lawrence-Bob Nothing wrong with points I do a bit of work to a friends Morris 1000 racer and the distributor, with points has been 100% reliable. It regularly hits 7000rpm and never misses a beat. We've had it on the rollers quite a few times trying different exhausts etc and playing with advance curves which I won't get into here too much BUT I will repeat what I mentioned earlier - max advance is not the way to go You learn very quickly on a highly modified car that too much advance is deadly FOR EXAMPLE ONLY_________ We found 30-31deg gave best power on 'THIS' car and as soon as you went over 32 power dropped off but stayed around this level even up to 40deg without detonation ----so Using Mark's method of setting max timing by going up till it pings which would be 40plus deg and pulling it back a bit to stop it pinging would end up with max ign. timing set at something like 38 ish which in 'THIS' case would have been around 6-7deg above where max power was found to be over and out willy |
| William Revit |
| Willy To be fair, my method gives no real indication of what the max advance actually is. All I am doing is setting the 123 to an arbitary position on the wee dial, and setting it as if it were points at 2000. A relationship is thus established with best revs and 123 setting on the wee dial. From there you can use that relationship to try other related curves for optimizing max advance. I still have no idea what max advance actally is though - without using a strobe obviously - but I do perhaps have a better idea of how to mate the 123 to the engine's requirements. |
| Mark O |
| rollers |
| William Revit |
| Too far away.....and I like a challenge. |
| Mark O |
| Mark O, You obviously have some experiance, and you have chosen a plan of action and a method that I and several others do not agree with what your attempting to do. Some aka (peter burguss) have a global reputation of high value knowledge and ability and people like me that knows how to really screw up a project and have a history of setting stuff like this on fire At this point, there is nothing I or anyone else can say that will change your mind on this new adventure...we have all made our case and its there to be reviewed by you or a future memeber 100 years from now There is nothing else I can add, and a side from some almost illrealvent tips and guesses I doulbt anyone can add to your maddiness As you so poignantly stated.... ""Its a learning experiance"" To that i wish you the highest luck that a person can recieve Take lots of video Prop |
| Prop and the Blackhole Midget |
| Can you PLEASE honestly answer this one question, and dont ask this with any gloat or glory...I truely dont understand, and I just want honest insight, it seems at least 2 people per year share your mind set... and I just can not grasp the resistance Why the heavy resistance to a strobe /timming gun? You have had a week to arrange delivery to this barren no mans land you live in, they can be as cheap as 10 euros or as expensive as $1000 + usa, most shade tree weekend warrior wrench turners have at least one hanging on a nail, What is it you hope to accomplish by proudly saying... I did it, I tuned this engine WITHOUT a timming gun. I could probably dismantle an A series engine without every using a socket wrench, but it wouldnt be pretty, and id certianly carry no tattoo of pride for doing so, in fact id hide the fact in shame and embarrasment Id just like to understand this resistance to a timing gun you and others like you share Prop |
| Prop and the Blackhole Midget |
| Prop I don't trust timing with a wind up timing light , I always mark the pulley out or timing tape. Most adjustable guns are fine I'm sure but I had one that was 6deg out at 30deg years ago and havn't trusted them since just sayin willy To my way of thinking, Mark has hit the nail fair on the head by saying "I still have no idea what max advance actally is though - without using a strobe obviously" SO why not use a strobe, and I repeat my earlier comment that max advance isn't where you want to be and this ""All I am doing is setting the 123 to an arbitary position on the wee dial, and setting it as if it were points at 2000" I'm a bit lost with this bit. |
| William Revit |
| Mark If you have a look at this site and down on the left side there is a tuning guide that might give you the info you want--advance curve info--looks like they all start at 10deg at idle speed - I feel that setting timing at 10deg idle would be a better way to go for you than the 20deg mark you mentioned as it is more of a constant setting than the 20deg mark which could be out BUT-- as we say it's only a guide Hope this helps Willy I just don't want you to explode your engine- 123 Distributor www.tdcperformance.ca/ |
| William Revit |
| The problem is accepting 'all' will be 10 at idle, whatever idle is. If one sets it at the max advance rpm then one knows the advance curve is finito and will advance no more (in theory as long as the timing prog is ok) setting the next curve to the rated max advance for that particular curve does the same. To remind folk the way we set the timing. 1) Choose a curve, set the timing to the max of that curve eg 30. 2) Do a power run 3) Advance timing a bit do power run and see effect, if power better everywhere advance and test again till best power with no pinking. If power worse then retard timing. 4) If power improves at one point say max rpm but loses at lower rpm then the curve is incorrect, same as if needs more advance at low rpm less at high rpm, choose another curve more suited and start power testing again. With max advance chosen/set to suit where best power was with original curve eg 33 degrees max but needs 4 degrees less at say 2000 rpm. Choose a 33 degree curve or one with correct combo of low and high advance if you were to 'incorrectly' set it to 33, for example we have used 28 max set to 34. The curves are just advance curves and dont have to be restricted to being set at the advertised curve max advance. Peter |
| Peter Burgess Tuning |
| Yeah all good , I'm with you ---but he won't spend five bucks on a timing light Actually I'm over it cheers willy |
| William Revit |
| No timing light no tune Willy :) Bob Marley retro song I know what you mean about not wanting folk to blow engines up, too easily done. I like the idea of marking out degrees on a tape but we would have to spend lots of time sorting em for all the different cars we do, but for an 'own' car seems to be a good way forwards and consistent. Peter |
| Peter Burgess Tuning |
| Willy To answer the first query I don't use a strobe as I have no idea where to set the advance at for my engine. I agree it is a useful tool to measure what (any) advance actually is, and as Peter (I think) says, it is also a useful toool by which to corroborate the 123 settings. The 123 curves can be set on the small dial located in the body of the 123. I have selected what I believe to be about right - curve 6 - and fine tuned if you like that curve at 2000 rpm by rotating the distributor ACW/CW. Clearly though, that is only the optimum setting at that RPM, but I have nevertheless established which curves to use (those with 20 deg at 2000) should I wish to optimize performance further up the rev range. Many thanks for the site - very useful stuff. Been trawling the web for similar for ages with no luck. I appreciate it is a guide, and I not revving the nuts off the engine and being able to detect pinking should provide adequate warning of any problems regarding too much advance. PBT Yes - I see what you are getting at. You seem to be simply using the curves as curves rather than using the 123 settings. Is it necessary to set the timing to the max of the curve chosen - point 1 - if you are going to fiddle about with it later though? Essentially though this is what I am doing - I think! -but I use best rpm at a fixed throttle setting not best power as guide to performance. |
| Mark O |
| Mark You are obviously keen enough and know enough to have a fiddle with timing curves etc and hopefully experienced enough to have a feel for heading in the right direction BUT honestly you are playing with danger setting the timing at 2000 revs to get max revs/advance at this speed revving free. -It will be far too advanced for a under load situation resulting in too much advance at the top end Please get yourself a light-You'll have a new usefull toy that will always be good to have about Once you get sorted you can then record your timing results and later on if you need to check timing you'll have your specs and a light to check it with Go on do it- it's only the price of a couple of beers and a packet of chips willy |
| William Revit |
| Willy OK... I see your point in buying a strobe - to check max advance, not to set it...Understood and apologies for being a bit slow on the uptake..... Although I reside in Scotland, the price wasn't an issue.... honestly! My own warning mechanism was my ears - listening for pinking basically - but yes, agreed strobe is definitive check. Cheers Mark |
| Mark O |
| Mega XXXXX Willy, Mark... god bless you, but your a high speed crash in slow motion, I can not for the life of me look away Im not sure what your hearing that your calling pinking, but at 4000 rpms with my head under the bonnet, I cant even hear myself fart let alone hear a tiny premature explosion inside a pumping cylinder incased inside of 2 inchs of steel armored plating Is there any chance there is a hot rod club, a motor cycle club, just someone that has been down this road a few times that can help you out on this project. Some of the things you have posted have just made my toe nails curl. Please... spend sometime talking with willy, he is very knowledgeable on these engines and has been a great help to me over the years, if you have access to the ears of peter burguss, please capitalize on these mens brain power, nither one will lie or lead you astray Mark, I feel your in over your head on this topic, trust me ive been there ... dont feed the sharks if you dont have to I know this is hard to belive, but everyone of us is in your courner, we are on your side W want you to have the best success |
| Prop and the Blackhole Midget |
| Cheers Prop Peter Burgess is the man,-- we all know that--I, like you 100% respect every word he speaks. willy |
| William Revit |
| Whatever knowledge we have it is good to share and pass on, otherwise it dies when we do. It is good to gain knowledge too, keeps one on ones toes and interested in life. Peter |
| Peter Burgess Tuning |
| Peter, Now be honest... whats it like to be a GOD, among mortals...is the air as fresh as we all imagine it to be up there in the clouds Haha Prop |
| Prop and the Blackhole Midget |
| Hi Prop...never been tall enough to sniff the clouds :) Certainly wasn't fresh air in the church vestry last night, the lady who runs the church has died and the funeral is tomorrow, I have been setting out seats and pews for all the folk who will attend and my son Simon has rigged up loudspeakers for the Minister and for the organ to relay to an overflow room as we are expecting a lot of folk who want to say goodbye. Simon says what's that smell? We look round and Toby has decided he couldn't wait any longer and left me a little present, at least it was hard and not sloppy so easy to pick up in a doggy pooh bag! Peter |
| Peter Burgess Tuning |
| When I die I'm going to have my last deposit installed in the cofin with me. And I'm going to insist on an OPEN casket display. I'm sure all the mourners will just love it. LOL. |
| Lawrence Slater |
| I doubt you'll get your wish Lawrence - they'd have to find the body first :-) |
| graeme jackson |
| Hahaha... ""tobys farewell gift"" Now thats a soon to be classic, I hope in my send off the same would happen, ulogised and the dog applauded...thats just to rich to keep hidden Sad to hear about the spiritual leaders passing... no doulbt a huge hole with in the community...and hard to replace that kind of void Peace be with you and the congragation Prop |
| Prop and the Blackhole Midget |
This thread was discussed between 02/03/2015 and 13/03/2015
MG Midget and Sprite Technical index
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