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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Indicator bases



More issues over quality of replacement parts. This time the front indicator/sidelight units for the non 1500 cars. Though 1500 ones may be as bad.

My original 1971 ones had rusted away entirely, though they took 35+ years to do so. Since then I am now having to replace them for the 3rd time in 10 years. The metal bases seem to be made of some sort of thinly plated Rustinium. Once the surface plating is compromised the bases just disintegrate over a single winter.

I have tried buying from different suppliers and also let them know about the poor quality. I guess this is the age-old problem of chasing down to a minimum price and it is the quality that suffers.

Does anyone have experience of a good quality supplier? I suspect however that the problem is that whoever retails them, there is probably just one overseas manufacturer so they are all as bad as each other!
GuyW

I've found this too.

The glass is made of supercracky stuff as well.
Rob Armstrong

I bought the whole light assembles a while back and when I changed the bulbs last year or so ago I didn't notice any rust as such.

I'll look up when I bought them and where from.
Nigel Atkins

<< thinly plated Rustinium >>
Luxury ... normally it's not plated
Yep..usual problem with "parts" made in the far east with little or no QA
David Cox

A possible solution, though it may only delay the the oxidation process (and shouldn't really be necessary), would be to clear coat the metal before installation.
Martin

Sorry mine go back to July 2010, from MGOC Spares, funny how as you get older what you think of as not many years ago turns out to be 5 or 10 or even 20 plus for things that were you thought not that long ago!
Nigel Atkins

I agree that the quality of many replacement parts is not up to original factory stuff but it is better than no parts at all.

What really gets me is they charge extortion prices for them. I wouldn't mind so much if the quality and life span was there but someone is making a ton of cash somewhere. To make a better quality part might cost what, a few more pennies? Then they wouldn't sell as many would they.

Cheers,
Clare

Clare Ravenwood

Detroit had the mentality back in the 50s and 60s of "if it breaks they'll just buy another one". Once the Japanese cars hit the US market, it took Detroit many years to recover. Margaret Thatcher once said "Quality is building products that don't come back for people who do come back". Unfortunately we're in a niche market which greatly limits the quantities made by a limited number of manufacturers who are in it for the money. They know they have a captive market.
Martin

<< Then they wouldn't sell as many would they.>>

Not true Clare, not in the case of our cars. If you need a replacement part like this it simply isn't optional. You wouldn't choose to not buy one because it was 10% more. Or would you favour just scrapping the whole car?

OTOH, if there was a better quality alternative at 10% more then word would soon get round via forums like this, and they would sell well rather than the cheap rubbish. The problem is the suppliers don't seem to realise this!
GuyW

I think the point that Clare was making is that if they made/sold better quality parts which lasted longer, they wouldn't sell as many because they lasted more than two or three years, not because they cost more.
Dave O'Neill 2

My point is that if it was better made, it would last longer, say 10 years as opposed to the current 3. So, in 10 years they sell you 1 good one, in 10 years as is the case now, they sell you 3 or 4.

They have us over a barrel and they know it which is why if there was good competition and manufacturer A made a great product and Manufacturer B made a lousy one, in time only Manufacturer A would in theory exist.

I don't mind paying a good price for a quality item, it ticks me off to pay a good price for an inferior quality item. Look at the varying quality of replacement switches. Some only seem to last for 4 or 5 cycles before they break.

Clare
Clare Ravenwood

Unfortunately the companies who made better parts were deserted by owners / customers who wouldn't pay the going rate and were consequently put out of business. The theory that people will pay the price for good parts is all fine and dandy when discussing the issue, but very rarely, are there enough numbers of them in in reality , for a 'good quality' manufacturer to start up again, and risk failure.
Its a hateful situation for owners and manufacturers who both want the same thing... a good product,, but its the buying public at large who have let these manufacturers down in the pursuit of cheap parts.
J L HEAP

Exactly why I put in my first post:
<< this is the age-old problem of chasing down to a minimum price and it is the quality that suffers>>

But I think that was more prevalent 25 years ago when stocks of NOS parts ran out and copy parts became available. More to the point, when these cars were often just considered cheap bangers, then owners wanted cheap parts that would just keep them on the road. You wouldn't spend much on parts for a car only worth a few hundred.
Nowadays, with the values very much higher, then a more expensive quality item would be worth buying, if they still existed.

It is why what I was asking was if anyone knew of a good quality supplier for the parts I need.
I wasn't asking if anyone could tell me the cheapest source!

But its also an issue of trust between customer and retailer. If during the "chase to the bottom" the supply chain has narrowed to one manufacturer of shoddy parts, then even if you pay more to a "glossy fronted" supplier, you still get the rubbish part. You need to be able to trust the supplier to charge correctly according to the quality of the parts they are able to supply.
GuyW

Guy, the trouble is that I don't think the big suppliers are bothered about trust because they have the supermarket mentality. If they were bothered they would have rock solid quality control and source from decent manufacturers but they don't bother.

Trev
T Mason

Trev, if the big suppliers offered an excellent product at a price above a cheap part, then they would find that most customers buy the cheap one. Profits will be less on these items, and the need to stock parts of good quality that simply do not sell will lead them to drop the better product from their range. Alternatively they can harp on at how good their better product is and not sell cheaper parts , in which case they go out of buisness.
Its a tricky balance and suppliers are up against a desire for cheapness. We now use Rossendale springs for the Minor which will probably outlast the car and keep their spring rate. Unfortunately they are many times the cost of 'off the shelf ' ones . Do people buy them, no , they buy the cheap ones and then refit another set a year later when the spring rate has all but disappeared. despite the value of classics rising this mentality still remains to the detriment of those who wish for better parts.
J L HEAP

It's as JL has put and he should know as he sells some of the items - and this is the same as I've been banging on about for years, it's very simple most classic car owners very rarely use their cars so don't want or need a part that has working longevity so want the cheapest prices. Plus they are those that are tight-fisted and we all get that way sometimes with somethings.

Cosmetic parts are valued so can be sold at higher prices, if you don't drive the car much then something like s/s oversills for £130 is acceptable but paying £5 instead of £3 for a decent rotor arm is not.

Things can improve as owners get fed up of the poor quality parts and seek better quality but it takes a good while for the poor quality stock to clear through. Think of electrical items, they're improved generally over the last number of years.

The problem with selling prices is that often they are too low making them attractive and making higher priced alternatives seem overpriced to some. I don't think that most poor quality parts have been sold at high, let alone extortionate, prices often the prices have obviously low, or too low if you really thought about it before purchase.

The majority of customers have ruled the supply and demand.
Nigel Atkins

The problem is finding the good stuff! We all know there is rubbish being sold, and are happy to "discuss" why this should be. But tracking down quality items is much harder, especially for those who have to rely on buying by post. You can't even inspect the items on offer.
GuyW

My parts supplier is very concerned about his reputation. There are other parts suppliers here but I have used the same fellow since 1989 I think. Small place, good selection and service, toll free technical advice line, good reputation, a few employees and quite often he answers the telephone.

Sells new as well as some good salvaged parts as some things as we know are just not available any more.

Stands behind his products. He sent out a notice that he was no longer selling a particular headlight switch as he said it was crap and the plastic too brittle and breaking after only a little use. Eventually he did find one that was of decent quality and it seems to be a good one.

Like a lot of the suppliers, he can't afford to make the parts and there is only so many sources for the item so it is up to the big buyers to try and have the source do it right. Then it still comes down to cost against profits.

Cheers,
Clare

Clare Ravenwood

We've had threads on rubbish replacement parts perhaps we could have a running thread on good quality parts.

Including the source of those parts rather than the general so-and-so supplies good parts and so-and-so doesn't because almost all sell a mix of good and poor quality parts.

That thread would be a useful resource.

As put I can't help with your side lights as my purchase goes back too far perhaps.

Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel. In the absence of any specific known good ones l will just have to take pot luck again. Maybe as Martin said, l can do some additional surface treatment to give them some added protect. Though l think l tried that's last time with Dinitrol. I probably just need to paint the whole base unit with a couple of coats of a good quality metal paint.

Oh, and the cheese headed chrome screws that hold the bezel on are rubbish too!
GuyW

Expanding on Nigel's "Cosmetic parts are valued so can be sold at higher prices", I was at Race Retro yesterday.

I may be wrong, but I had the impression that the some of the good parts suppliers who I have bought from in previous years were not present. There were plenty of 'bling'/high end stalls in the posher halls selling arty things, newly made (but in my opinion cr*ppy) auto-memorabilia, as well as posey non-auto related stuff such as designer kitchen knives (Set of three normal price £330, show offer £190).

Some of the component suppliers had been booted out to the cattle shed or were not there at all. There were fewer 2nd hand book/magazine stalls (was hoping to get a copy of The Good Book).

My guess is that the organisers, just like all organisers of shows like this, are getting greedy and the small but enthusiastic and knowledgeable suppliers who work on small margins are being priced out of the market

Perhaps I should have gone to Stoneleigh last Sunday! Still, I did manage to capture a mint, unused non-snorkel rocker cover so I came away happy-ish!

Colin
Colin Mee

Guy,
I've just nipped out with a powerful cheap LED torch a mate got me and the screws on mine still look good and they'd be ones from July 2010 so perhaps you could try the stock from MGOC Spares for screws and lamp plates. You could ask about the present quality, the chaps I speak to always give an honest answer (as did the chaps at Rimmers, Toss personally I wouldn't trust).

I think I still have some old screws in good condition I could look them out for you and stick them in the post for the sake of a second-hand envelope and a non-franked stamp (we get a disproportionate amount of pleasure from getting them for some reason).

And I have a couple spare of the previous chrome trim rims as I expected the 2010 ones to rust and they don't appear to have so don't be stuck.
Nigel Atkins

Thanks for the offer regarding the screws, Nigel.
But what I plan to do is contact MGOC and order a pair of their lamp bases and will get screws with them. We shall see if their source is any better than the last ones I bought. I had, perhaps wrongly, assumed that by now they were all supplying from the same poor source.

I have the chrome bezels and glass from the original 1971 bases,all still good.
GuyW

Colin,
will you be getting the rubber instead of cork gasket to use with the rocker cover, useful I believe for race cars where the cover might often come off.

I was going to get the rubber gasket but for only the second time since I've had the midget I think the cork has to sealed just to try and dissuade me.

Sorry can't pass DH - unless you want an original 1967 publication there are plenty of suppliers of the new to buy reprint copy that would cover your car.

http://brooklandsbooks.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=12_138_708&product_id=560
Nigel Atkins

No problem Guy.

Spanner in works - I wonder if it's the same supplier that does just the base that supplies them to the kit, you'd have thought so but you never know and stocks can come from various sources. I know the big boys used to buy up stock from places closing down such as sealed bid for container loads, taking the wanted with unwanted and good with bad stock.

I think MGOC missed the local to me Henleys Rover/BL stock about 12-15 years ago.
Nigel Atkins

"Perhaps I should have gone to Stoneleigh last Sunday!"

If you had, you may have been as disappointed as I was.

A number of the usual specialists were not present.

I'm also not impressed with combining the event with the Triumph spares day. I'm sure I said after last year's event that I wouldn't be going again, so I'm not sure why I did.

I won't be going next year...if I remember.
Dave O'Neill 2

It would be interesting to see what Trading Standards had to say about light fittings as surely if they only last 3 years or so they are not fit for purpose. It may be harder to prove with moving parts but to be fit for purpose it cant be unreasonable to expect light fittings to last at least 10 years.

As for suppliers at Stoneleigh I think a lot dont bother with shows now because they dont sell enough to cover the cost of going. A few years ago we would all turn up at these shows with a shopping list but now we just jump on the website whenever we need something.

Trev
T Mason

I doubt Trading Standards would take much interest. They are short staffed and far too busy dealing with counterfeit goods and downright dangerous children's toys. I really wouldn't expect or want them to waste their time on a thing like this.
GuyW

The other thing to remember is that not all owners use their cars as much and in my case never in the winter. My new front indicator units look as good as they did when I fitted them 6 years ago. But I covered every bit of them in Dinitrol before fitting (including the inside of the chrome trims), they've never seen a salty road, car is always garaged and in the winter I cover all the chrome in oil before putting it it's Carcoon. They bloody well should look like new after all that!!

So for me most chrome items are adequate quality but I can imagine they would dissolve away after 6 years on a car used all year round!

Personally I would pay a lot more for decent parts and wish suppliers would offer them so at least we'd have the choice.
John

I see that Moss offer two types of new wishbone pans - the Heritage version is £130 and they do another version for about half that price
Dave O'Neill 2

Seems I use my car too much, for the wrong things and in the wrong conditions then!


GuyW

and


GuyW

Can't see a problem there, Guy. The indicator bases are well above the water level.

I got a unit from AH Spares that seemed good. But that was 10 years ago, so irrelevant really.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Its not that your using it wrong Guy. Your problems are obviously being caused by all that blingy stuff you have put on it!

Moss have done two different quality parts for some items for years but they dont do it for many parts. I bought a clutch off them a few years ago. They did one for about £80 and an OE one which I bought for about £120 I think it was. It was an AP one and touch wood I have not had the problems many have had with it.

Trev
T Mason

Trev, re the blingy stuff - it was a Christmas Cracker outing, 'though a few years ago.
I should have acknowledged that photo though - expertly taken by Mothy - or more likely Sarah.

The car also suffers from excessive use in the sunshine as well:


GuyW

John,
the chrome doesn't dissolve on cars used all year round my front light trims are 6½ years old. I admit I avoid using the car as much as possible in salt but it's not always possible and we don't get much snow around here but some.

The headlight retaining rims have rust on them though, they felt nasty and sharp when I fitted them so I'm not surprised but they're too fiddly to get at to give them much attention, if I replace them I'll do more about prevention if they're as cheaply made and finished.
Nigel Atkins

I'm jealous of those photos Guy, I'd love to take mine out in the snow. I just can't bring myself to do it though!

It's not that I'm saying don't use it in the winter, just that some of us would rather not! I'm the same with my motorbikes and I do sometimes think I'm being a bit daft.

My dream trip in the Sprite would be driving to the Alps in to go skiing but I guess with my wussyness about getting my car covered in salt it's never going to happen!

John

This is the video from an article in Evo that inspired my Skiing trip in the Sprite!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wYyPicy7Bhs
John

Now we are getting down to the root cause of the problem Guy. Extremes of snow and now sunshine are quite obviously causing too much expansion and contraction which is severely weakening the materials!

Trev
T Mason

This thread was discussed between 24/02/2017 and 26/02/2017

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.