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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - indicator help please

Hi everyone.
I was hoping that I could avail of your combined genius please?
Finally bought my first midget, 1975.
I am having indicator trouble.
The hazards work, although with ignition on they flash a little slower?...
Indicators generally dont work, I have tested the stalk(turn switch) continuity seems fine. Put new hazard switch in...no difference. New relay...no difference.
they either dont work at all or occasionally they flash once or twice and then thats it.
Really not sure where to go, earths seem fine, is there a chance a faulty voltage stabiliser would cause it? I have spent a day doing it and am loosing the will to live, any help would really be appreciated.
Thanks so much
JP
jp detourtoulon

I had similar problems with my 1500 and i fit a new electronic flasher unit and that cured it . Check for a feed at the flasher unit not the hazard flasher unit (there are 2 )should be the green wire, i think it is located behind the speedometer
mark (1977 1500 Midget) Preston Lancs

Ok really weird, charged the battery, have a feed, got a new flasher unit(well the same old style) now it works, yay, but really slowly, is that why i should replace with a new electronic one?
Thanks once again mark.
jp detourtoulon

I would check out the earthing particularly in each lamp fitting. High resistance due to poor connection plays havoc with the loading on the relay and therefore whether the current is sufficient to switch the bi-metallic strip which makes and breaks the circuit.
Electronic relays are much less sensitive to these issues and I found that changing eliminated the problems. I used one from Halfords.
Like all things here, you will find some people love them while others wouldn't touch with a barge pole.
G Williams (Graeme)

Hi, welcome

one big lesson learnt - a fully charged battery will
help with finding electrical and starting faults whereas as a low charged battery will hinder or even possibly be part of the fault

now the battery being change may not (or may have) helped with this particular fault

you cleaning and checking the connections (if the cleaning was only disconnecting and reconnecting) may have contributed to it working

don't put any new parts on a car you've just got particularly indicator flasher units as the new ones can be abysmal build quality

put on an electronic version much later if you want to keep the flashing steady at idle but as someone point out to me fitting the electronic version could mask faults (ETA: there you go it was probably Graeme)

lack of use of the car and long periods of storage can bring in numerous small faults and progressively worse faults

get the Driver's Handbook, do a 36k-mile check-up/service whilst driving the car frequently, drive the car regularly all the year round - that way you'll using things like indicators, horn, wiper motor, etc so you'll be keeping them from stiffing up and know if they need attention
Nigel Atkins

damn keyboard, below meant to have read -
>>now the battery being - charged - may not (or may have) helped with this particular fault<<

ETA: see photo and have a guess which way I feel about them (but I had my car 4 years before fitting one)


Nigel Atkins

Thank you all so much for all your help.
I will order an electronic one, the car was laid up for 13 years before I got it (yesterday) so fair amount to do. Just sorting earths out as there is a lot of negative wire corrosion, so new contacts all round.
Once again thanks, no doubt I will be on here picking your brains again in the near future, probably tomorrow lol
JP
jp detourtoulon

no, don't

only put on service replacement parts (which excludes condensers and CB points despite what some servicing kits included)

don't replace parts unless necessary as many things on the car will improve with use

this excludes safety items that look iffy which will be tyres regardless of tread

possibly brake pads, brake flexi-hoses, seals in the brake system, brake fluid (you might see a priority pattern here)

possibly anything on steering

possibly suspension bushes, grease in suspension points

electrics will need cleaning and possibly putting back together with electrical contact grease, all leads, wires, connectors, switches need to be clean, secure and protected

a great deal of the work and servicing of the car consists of cleaning and lubricating

I don't know anything about restoring or recommissioning or electrics or mechanics but if you want some general, non-technical, non-mechanical notes email me

if you've not already done so then the first thing you want to do is read the relevant Driver's Handbook or buy a copy - (Ref:0058) - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html

putting photos up here can help with spotting things for now and later
Nigel Atkins

Thanks for the advice Nigel.
Only replacing the earth contacts as the wire has corroded inside(not unusual with old earths(negative contacts).
other things listed are now on my list :-)
I do love a project.
Just to confirm you dont think an electronic relay is a good idea and to stick with the old style 2 pin?
Thanks
JP
jpdt

Ideally you want your indicators to flash at the correct rate with a known good original style flasher.

It's not just earth connections that cause the indicators to flash slowly. You can have corrosion/oxidisation in any of the connections to the lamps - and there are quite a few.

Any high resistance connections will not only cause the lamps to flash slowly, but will also reduce their effectiveness.

Once you are sure that the connections are good, you can fit the electronic flasher...but then you probably won't need to.
Dave O'Neill2

personally I think the electronic is a good idea that's my car in the photo

but you don't want to be replacing parts unnecessarily now plus with use things can improve or you get used to them as they are

plus more of your money will go faster than you imagine as you progress so unless you have an unlimited budget, in which case sponsoring my car will take care of that, then save your money as you may need it for distress and urgent purchases now and later (and later again)

in a couple of years time, subject to regular use, if you want to change it do

I'm glad you're looking forward to it

(personally I only enjoy driving the cars)
Nigel Atkins

It would be nice to drive it, with the sun out lol.
I agree I have learnt on my last cars to not replace unless I have to.
Quick question just incase you know.
Fuel gauge is there an easy test to check whats wrong as thats the next problem for me...and I dont really want to take the tank off unless I have to.
thanks once again.
jpdt

sorry I missed Dave's post, he makes very good points

also when you said the earth wires were corroded I wondered what made you think the other wires and connections and other parts and components wouldn't also be

sometimes if you peel back the insulation on wires and leads you'll see the corrosion has gone back further than expected

I don't know if you tackled such projects before (and even if you haven't you'll probably still know more than me) but there are others on here who have ongoing projects or past projects, some many times over so have a look at the threads and the Archives and ask on here before you start an area or job as there are many with lots of knowledge and experience

(some have a disjointed sense of humour or is that just me, oh yes, it not just me but me included)

good luck
Nigel Atkins

Your fuel gauge is probably suffering from poor connections, too.

If you earth the tank side of the gauge and it goes to 'full', your supply side is OK.

Your next move will depend on the results of that test.
Dave O'Neill2

yes another thing for the list(s)

13 years off the road I'd guess more like chapters, that one for thing for at least three - electrics, gauges, fuel

btw JP, if you want to you can Customise your title and add your vehicle's details to be viewed by others

is this project for weeks, months or years?
Nigel Atkins

So I earthed the tank side and the gauge did not move, I did check the resistance from the tank and got a reading of 57 Ohms whic suggests to me that the sender is working...i think?
What do you suggest?
also I have been looking at a lot of wiring diagrams and they all suggest it feeds in some way to the heater fan switch, now i know I have a fan as i can see the wiring but, I do wear glasses, but Im buggered if i can find any switch to control it?
Thanks yet again
JP
jpdt

The project is for as long as it takes to get it back on the road, then ongoing I suppose.
Will have a go at customising title, your quite right its going to be a long list, gives me something to do though when the monsters are asleep and my wife is studying
jpdt

The fuel gauge is fed off the 'green' circuit, via the voltage stabiliser.

If you have a wiring diagram, it should be fairly easy to trace the various connections from the fuse box onwards. You obviously have 12v on the green circuit, as the indicators are (partially) working.

The switch for the fan is built in to the heater air control - the knob with 'H' on it. Pulling it out and pushing it in closes and opens the flap which controls the airflow through the heater. When pushed fully in, it can be turned clockwise, which switches on the fan.

These switches do fail and are not available new. They are often available on the secondhand market, but can sometimes command high prices.
Dave O'Neill2

Found the fan switch thank you.
I have a voltage on the green side of the voltage stabiliser but nothing on the other side (green and light green) that goes to the gauge.
I assume that means faulty voltage stabiliser?
jpdt

Gday jpdt, I had to strip the loom in the engine bay back to the firewall to cure the black wire syndrome, I added (duplicated) new earth wires and connections (spade connectors)to all the lighting/indicators ccts, result, brilliant lights. Next step was relays on the headlights, horn, cooling fan. result, even better. My point is if you have it stripped back uprate it to modern standards. When it's wrapped back up no one can tell the difference i.e. purists. PS don't use electrical tape (adhesive) if you can avoid it, makes a sticky mess of the loom if you have to unwrap later. Cheers
Rod
R W Bowers

The fuel gauge voltage stabilizer gives a steady 10v check you have 10v at gauge this might help

http://www.mgexp.com/article/fuel-sender-adjust.html

http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/fg_10.htm
mark (1977 1500 Midget) Preston Lancs

Hi JP,

As the proud owner of a 10 years off the road, ratty, now rolling project, that was MoT'd at Christmas, and has done 2500 miles since, with interspersed days of fixing broken bits as they happen. (two head gaskets in that time - 5 days first one, two evenings the second- nearside damper ... etc.). Never towed home although AA out once. You need to drive it. Drive it. And drive it.

I had similar flasher problem, its all in fixing the earths at every point where the lighting and flashing systems are earthed. Fix those and it will all go OK.

So long as its safe (stops and corners properly) then drive it some more. Mine sounds better and goes better each week in spite of my list of fixes (that btw is getting shorter).

Get it on the road, use it, and enjoy it.
Dave Squire (1500)

JP,
already the relevant Driver's Handbook would have helped you with switch location and operation and another wiring diagram

Dave's covered two of the four parts of heating, controlling and boosting air volume the DH will give you the hot or not and where, plus the all important way to stow the hood properly and where to find and how to use the choke (if you're unfamiliar with a 'choke')

and although it's not a book about restoration but for when the car was brand new it might help a bit with what goes where how it should work and was originally on the cars

and the bit you'll like the servicing schedule and how to do the work

(boy is it hard earning small commissions on book sales, the cat will go hungry tonight)
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 25/07/2013 and 26/07/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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