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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Is now the time to fit rear telescopics

Hi All,
Now have my '70 midget on its side, and have patched up all the rusty bits..
Part of this work included fitting a new shock absorber bracket (old one was well perforated!)
Question is, I was thinking of replacing the lever arms with telescopics..
Is now the time to do this..?
I know there are commercial kits for this..
However is there a cheaper DIY method which a man with a welder can fabricate?
Any help would be good
Cheers
tim
T Dafforn

Most of the telescopic conversions that I've seen bolt on to the original mountings in some manner anyway, so those will have to be repaired even to mount teles unless you do some sort of custom installation. My personal opinion (plenty of those and they're usually free) is that unless you're racing you won't do much better than the original lever action dampers will do with a proper rebuild and some stiffer valves. If you want to do some track days then you could fit the fully adjustable lever units built by Peter Caldwell at World Wide Auto Parts here in the states. I understand that there are a lot of A35 and some Spridget drivers using those over there already. My reasoning is thus, tube shocks are designed with proper valving for a vehicle of a given weight and suspension travel. Since no tube shocks were ever designed especially for the Spridget what ever shock you select is a compromise and most seem to wind up running on about the softest settings so not within the optimum area of the shocks performance. For racers where every fine bit of suspension tuning is critical, then they make a bit more sense, but for a road car I can't see it. That said, I do have a tele conversion on the rear of my car, but if I had to do it again I'd stick with the lever shockers. I would change them now if I hadn't designed the panhard link bracket into the shock mount when I built it.
Bill Young

Bill, question remains; what make / type shocks did you use?
Alex G Matla

What you have to watch with tele kits is that the geometry of some is deficient - at high spring deflections (just when you need shocks most) they are at such an angle that their effectiveness is greatly reduced. In my experience the result from such kits is very inferior to the original lever arms, especially if travelling with a passenger and a boot full of luggage and not on the motorway.

Paul Walbran

Mine was already fitted with telescopics. They are now in need of replacement.
But as I've just rebuild my engine and procured a 3.7 diff at last I'm on a budget.
Sorry for hijacking the thread.
Alex G Matla

I undersatnd that there is some data in the archives stating that the front shocks from a classic Mini of some vintage can be made to work on the back of a Spridget. The name "Growler" springs to mind... How well does it work? No idea. My understanding is that there is a limited amount of benefit to be derived from messing with a standard Spridget rear suspension unless you are prepared to sink a LOT of time and money into it. OTOH, since you do not currently have said suspension...
David "still using rear levers" Lieb
David Lieb

I am in the process of converting mine from mini front shocks to mini rear ones. The front shocks have worked fine for the last few years but they don't really have enough stroke length so I am going to try the rears as they are a bit longer. I find that it lifts the inside rear wheel off on tight corners as it doesn't have enough 'drop'. They are mounted straight onto the check strap points on the body and down to the shock mounting point on the axle. Will need to weld in some small turrets for the mini rears so wouldn't be a good idea for a road car.
John Payne

If you are running race tyres, John, you might find that it still lifts the rear tyre with the Mini rear shocks. I found that a 3/4" front ARB combined with sticky tyres and a PhantomGrip "LSD" resulted in the car going up onto two wheels when autocrossing even with lever arm shocks. My solution was to add a rear ARB with the links set VERY loose so that they do not have any effect until the point at which it wants to pick the wheel off the ground. I suppose that would be about the point at which the check strap is tight?
David "I didn't think I was on a motorcycle..." Lieb
David Lieb

John, my frogeye has mini rear shocks fitted and the stroke is fine, I used gas filled "standard" rated shocks and the damping is good. See this topic:
http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=97&subjectar=97&thread=200808242331585210

Graham.
Graham P 1330 Frogeye

Dunno what happened there, but the link doesn't work! Topic was posted on 24th August 2008 by Richard 79.
Try again:
http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&mode=thread&access=&subject=97&source=T&thread=200911052102129588
Graham
Graham P 1330 Frogeye

I try to avoid controversy, so do not post here any more but

I have a photograph taken of my check strap mounting points recently used for telescopics from mini fronts

taken last week

in a nutshell too blooming weak to mount shocks to without mucho beefing up

if I was doing it all again

I wouldnt

Levers are fine at the back, if kept VERY tight


bill sdgpm

a shot without the shocker in place

great cracks

it's the way I tell 'em

by the way

the outer side face of this bracket has already been beefed up, last year :^(

shouda guessed what would possibly happen

maybe I need a nice shiny new book...


bill sdgpm

If I was re-furbishing a shell I would beef up the mounts for a tele damper conversion.

Having said that, I've use the FL rear teles which operate vertically from the strap mount for 10+ years with no problems.

A
Anthony Cutler

My mini ones mounted to the strap mount are holding up fine so far. But then I had replaced the triangular shock mounting plate with a new one when I rebuilt the shell.

Guy
Guy Weller

Alex, to tell you the truth I really don't remember the specific information on the shocks. I'm pretty sure they were by Monroe but I don't remember the part number, specs, or application data. They've been on the car almost 13 years now and show no signs of leaking and still control the rebound well. It's the compression stroke that I don't like, the rear bottoms out a bit too easily in my opinion and I can't find any adjustment where that is good without the rear being a bit too stiff over the smoother bits.
Bill Young

mine are being beefed up now

my uphill MIG-ing leaves much to be desired

but it will be alright on the night

where's me anglegrinder?




fitted shock to check size and shape


bill sdgpm

"Since no tube shocks were ever designed especially for the Spridget what ever shock you select is a compromise"

To an extent that is true.

HOWEVER

There is a company in UK called 'Pro-Tech Shocks' (run by Rod Avo) who will construct and valve dampers to your car's requirements (based upon spring rates, corner weights and damper extension/retraction lengths).

http://www.protechshocks.co.uk/

We have AVO's (from Frontline) on the racer but next season will be swapping over to Pro-Tech.

These are the ones fitted to my Ginetta G15 racer. They are also about half the weight of the equivalent SPAX, GAZ, AVO equivalents:


Deborah Evans

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the opinions...
One of th reasons for asking was because I have the car in a state that would allow me to strengthen the bracket for use with telescopic shocks..
I am not surprised that some of you have experienced failures of the bracket.
This area seems to be a bit of a rust trap.. On my car the metal in this area was seriously thinned in this area making it very likely the fail, hence the need to replace.
I do have to say that the replacement item does look up to the job, but an couple of extra reenforcement peices wouldn't go amiss!
Tim
T Dafforn

Very nice Deborah. It's a shame that a shock with the correct specifications really isn't available in a low cost version, I'll bet those are a bit dear to have custom made. Just for comparison Peter's rebuilt levers run about 42 pounds plus core and add another 42 pounds for the fully adjustable ones. How's that compare with the Protech shocks? They didn't have any prices on their web page.
Bill Young

many differing reactions to this subject

again, as so often in here

if mine can fail so can anyone's, note that the actual bootfloor mounted support arch has pulled down off the roof of its arch structure. This appears to be why the old thinned out web has cracked

my advice to ALL using the check strap mount to fit shocks is to:

a- keep your eye on the "arch to brace" gap, if it starts to enlarge you are on the way to trouble

b- before you do use the structure to mount a shock absorber, weld a fillet along the entire joint between the two (roof and bracket) and weld a thick-ish body washer where the shocks will site. Both on the outside of the mounting web and the inner brace structure. This belt and braces approach should give you strength and peace of mind.

my Mini front shocks give a fair length of "drop" and a decent amount of "bump" too, along with sufficient damping without resource to uprated doohdahs

But as I said earlier, if I was going to do this now - I wouldn't. The levers give plenty good enough damping for a roadgoing car and even for a track day "sleeper"
bill sdgpm

My shocks are on seperate brackets. I don't actually know whether they are at an angle.
Alex G Matla

alex didn't you have the angled version that fits near the original mounting?
i think some old minishocks should fit (check Thijs or carstif they have anny old ones)

BTW yess i'm back (not that i've been gone for long) but my 8 years old pc died on me :(
ordered a new laptop got delivered in 2 days and i even managed to save the data from my old pc!
this realy feals like a victory!
Onno Könemann

Bill,

The Pro-Techs were £70 per unit in late 2007.

I've just commissioned a set for my MG TF160 and they came in at £75 per unit.

By comparison the equivalent 'off the shelf' SPAX are around £10-£20 dearer and don't come with the option of adjustable spring pans nor spherical bearings.

As I said, I will be getting Pro-Techs made up for the Midget racer in the early new year (equivalent to the Frontline rear set up). Once that is done it would be easy for people to order direct from Pro-Tech (because they will then have a record of the damper).

Alternatively, I regularly go to the USA to stay with my cousin in upstate NY so I could, if needs be, bring some over.


Deborah Evans

Tim

Where in Warwickshire are you? I have a telescopic set up you could come and look at if your interested, I am in Warwick

Cheers Carl
C Bintcliffe

Hi Carl,
sounds interesting..
Are you around this weekend?
Tim
T Dafforn

I am about for most of the weekend although it might be a bit breezy!! contact me at carl(dot)bintcliffe@ntlworld(dot)com remove the brackets and change the dots!

Cheers Carl
C Bintcliffe

This thread was discussed between 05/11/2009 and 13/11/2009

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