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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - 'Knowledgable' friends.

A friend who reckons he knows a bit about old cars saw the midget for the first time yesterday. After a comment that it didn't seem to be running very well,(wrong) he confided a piece of information which he clearly felt was a secret known only to a chosen few.

"Don't put oil in your dashpots, use brake fluid". I met him again later and he said that he didn't mean brake fluid, he meant diff oil.

Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, what is the opinion of the great and good?
Roger D

I've only used diff oil to balance the drop time between carbs on a non matching pair. Often due to greater clearance you can have one piston dropping faster than the other one so increasing the viscosity can improve this. Do the same with dampers to match one side to the other.
f pollock

This may originate from John Twist of University Motors saying to use "90 weight gear oil" but this is probably more for carbs that are worn. I've tried it and 75w-90, and 20 SAE (from SU), and engine oil, all work but if you change the oil you may need to adjust the carb settings.

As for the judgement of if the car is running well or not that depends on knowledge and experience, if someone only drives their car and not others then as performance slips it can be missed or misinterpreted in others.

How many other Midgets have you and your friend recently driven, the last time I swapped drives with another Spridget mate he found my accelerator pedal was loose and I'd not really noticed as I'd got so used to it. His car was great of course, but he did change something on his to the same as mine as he found it better.

Your car certainly seems to be running a good mpg and as long as it's not too lean and accelerators well that's fine, even more important is how it brakes, steers, handles and rides.

Other oils I’ve seen suggested for use –
• ATF – seems like it might be on the thinner side according to the chart (see below)
• 3-IN ONE – there might be a bit of confusion here as some may be referring to the ‘3-IN-ONE Multi-Purpose Oil' which the makers (WD40 company) state “is SAE 17, it is quite a fine oil.” whereas others may be referring to the ‘3-in-ONE Motor Oil’ (blue label) which is equivalent to SAE 20
• sewing machine oil – comes in various grades, a surprising range of grades
• (suspension) fork oil – a heavy 20 SAE (ISO 68) is detailed here, it may be the same as the ‘Penrite Damper Oil’ which is the equivalent SU Damper oil – http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/shocker-oil-2
• mono grade engine oil – 30w seems to be the one that comes up a lot
• WD40 (spray) – it is very thin compared to the others, I’d not use it.



Nigel Atkins

Normally you only get that kind of "quality" advice on Facebook ;-)

Happy Friday everyone
Malc.
Malcolm

Unless the friend can quote from the relevant Driver's Handbook I'd not trust him. 🤣
Nigel Atkins

Engine oil 20/50.

(Nigel as per the 'Good Book')

R.
richard b

Arh, yes, Richard but which 20w50. 😊

And in my 'good book' it says clean engine oil and lists various weights of multigrades, then SU sell their own damper oil (20SAE) .

But of course you won't go far wrong by starting with and/or following the 'good book'.
Nigel Atkins

I used to use Redex but since my bottle (bought in the 1980s) is now empty I use new 20/50 engine oil. The Redex you get today is a very thin shadow of the original so is no good in dashpots.
Rob
MG Moneypit

I used to use 3 in 1, then I moved to engine oil, now I use the oil that Burlen sell for the purpose.
Jeremy Cogman

I've always used the Burlen oil, never any problems and the bottle that I bought a few years ago is still half full.
Martin

I'm with Malcolm.... again. RT(F)M is my advice.
Oggers

20/50 here too.
Jeremy MkIII

I recall from the 1960s book by Clive Trickey, he suggested brake fluid, but only for racing, to get faster response. Like others here I use the stuff from Burlen.
Les Rose

If you are going to experiment, perhaps first empty the dashpot chambers completely and go for a drive so you can experience what the oil actually does?

(Adapted from Carroll Smith advice re: regular dampers/shock absorbers)
AdrianR

That Burlen oil is £6.68 with vat for 125ml I.e. around £215 per 4 litres. It's described as a 20 weight oil. I fail to see the advantage over 20/50 because the dashpots only get slightly warm so 20/50 should stay close to 20 weight I would think.
Bill Bretherton

Not directly related to this thread but still annoying are the tools that some "enthusiasts" buy. Why on earth would someone want a 250 piece tool kit. I have made do for over 50 years with just a handful of spanners, all top quality and now cherished posessions. Same applies to drills and taps and dies to clean up threads.


Jan T
J Targosz

I use 20/50 engine oil. It's my understanding (and I'm sure I'll be corrected) that the oil's job is to slow the rise of the piston thereby increasing the fuel air ratio during acceleration. In a conventional carburettor this would be the job of the accelerator pump. Using too light an oil would allow the piston to rise too quickly, weakening the mixture during acceleration. This would lead to slower acceleration and possibly hesitation. At steady state running, neither accelerating or decelerating, the piston isn't moving so the grade of oil has no effect.
R.A Davis

Just what I believe too. The oil also prevents the piston from fluttering - it is a true damper. In over 50 years of driving cars with SU carbs I have always used whatever was in the engine, usually 20-50. There is no reason at all to buy anything special.

And by the way, the dashpots should hardly ever need topping up. There is nowhere for the oil to go. It is in a sealed tube - there's no hole at the bottom. Of course if you overfill it the oil will overflow down into the carb as you push in the piston plunger. Then the next time you look it may appear to have lost oil. But as long as you can feel resistance when you replace the plunger you have enough oil in there.
Mike Howlett

I agree 20/50 is all I have ever used. As Mike says it hardly needs touching year on year.
Bob Beaumont

Practical Classics suggest 50:50 of engine oil and 3 in 1 to give a good approximation of the weight you need for the dashpots. Works for me.
Chris Madge

Chris, you'd seriously trust a motoring jurno!!?

If it works that's fine - but which 3-IN-ONE oil, see my post below, unlike most jurnos I did research by contacting the company.

• 3-IN-ONE – there might be a bit of confusion here as some may be referring to the ‘3-IN-ONE Multi-Purpose Oil' which the makers (WD40 company) state “is SAE 17, it is quite a fine oil” whereas others may be referring to the ‘3-in-ONE Motor Oil’ (blue label) which is equivalent to SAE 20.

3-IN-ONE Multi-Purpose Oil (scroll down page for Product Details) - https://www.3inone.com/products/multi-purpose-oil/

3-IN-ONE Motor Oil (scroll down page for Product Details) - https://www.3inone.com/products/motor-oil/

Nigel Atkins

Your attention to detail never disappoints Nigel !
I was referring to the 3 in 1 Multipurpose stuff.

However I'm surprised you haven't questioned how the 50:50 is measured - is it by weight or volume, and at what temperature ?

To be honest I just chuck a similar amount of each in roughly equal quantities by volume together. The oil weight for dashpots isn't critical IMO.


Chris Madge

I thought it might highlight the idea that if 3-In-One Motor Oil is 20SAE same as the SU stuff how it compares in price, and perhaps use, to the SU stuff.

I'm surprised anyone bothers with trying to do a 50/50 mix of such small qualities of oils and how this was discovered and found to be best - but like you put it's not critical and I was only slightly curious in passing when I first saw at Practical Classics video a while back.

I see you put you just chuck a similar amount of each in roughly equal quantities by volume together - at what ambient temperature and temperatures of the oils?*






ETA: *I better add the question is a joke, for those that think I am actually oil religious, I have no religions - MG, soccer/futball, god(s), heavy metal, Jedi - other than the good book and good ale of course.
Nigel Atkins

Just for fun, this is what keith calver of calver special tuning says. -- "Others have distilled (literally in some cases) their own 'snake oil' that gives them what they're looking for. The problem with 'special brews' is that they're hard to repeat consistently."

Perhaps he isn't aware of the holy trinity motor oil Nigel. 😁.

Any old oil?
any old oil?
any any any old oiel?
Anything will do, you know it's true, you could even use treacle in yer old su.
So if yer skint, don't spend a mint, just ask yer uncle Nigel.
He'll tell you all about the 3 for 1,
Old oiel, old oiel.

anamnesis

oh very good!
Bob Beaumont

🤪
anamnesis

Very good, I knew the tune but couldn't think of it for a good few minutes and then still I had to check the lyrics of the song to check. I wouldn't know it of course if it wasn't for repeats on the telly in the 60s.

I wonder what those that don't know the tune make of it. Better than most poetry I've ever heard.
Nigel Atkins

Just something to do when I can't sleep Nigel. Lol.

1911
https://youtu.be/a4GdWK_WoNs

Or, 1957
https://youtu.be/upg5Pj5PW8k

Or 1967
https://youtu.be/wTswJiOt6zk

I must have heard all those and more on the telly/radio/grand parent's records, plus from singing along at saturday night knees ups, in various boozers in good old lundun when I still lived there.

What's yer favourite?
anamnesis

"David Jones is the debut studio album by English singer Davy Jones, released in 1965 by Colpix Records."

Having put that I can admit I got the wrong song but right tune, and your lyrics, and poetry, were still good to the wrong song.
Nigel Atkins

Since they don't play songs like that on this side of the pond I never heard that song before, I've now got the tune going through my head on a constant loop. Thanks.
Martin

Martin,
Saturday night in the Lundun pubs of anam's younger years it'd still be too early for punch-ups so more beers (though anam probably had "continental" lager to impress himself and others) and songs round the old joanna. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7q3PxD__VA
Nigel Atkins

One of the things that I like about this board is the trans-ocean cultural exchange, not to mention thread drift.

Nigel,

Enlighten me, what is a "joanna"?
Martin

Piano in Cockney rhyming slang.

"Keep in mind that some cockney rhyming slang can only be understood if you’re familiar with the cockney accent. For instance, “Aunt Joanna” means “piano.” That’s because in cockney English, “piano” is pronounced “pianna,” which rhymes with “Joanna.”"
Nigel Atkins

Nigel,

Thanks.
Martin

🤣🤣. Keep that loop going Martin.

𝅘𝅥𝅮 Any old iron
Any old iron?
Any any any old iron?𝅘𝅥𝅮

Nah, I was a bitter kid Nigel. I was never a lager lout. Lol

In St'Reatham I drank Worthington 'E', Courage Tavern, Double Diamond, Whitbread Tankard, Watneys Red Barrel. Then I discovered Wandsworth and became a Young's boozer. That's when the fighting started. 😅.

Elton John even wrote a song for us.

𝅘𝅥𝅮 don't give us none of your aggravation,
We had it with your discipline
Saturday night's alright for fighting
Get a little action in 𝅘𝅥𝅮

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=26wEWSUUsUc

Wasn't (isn't) only my dashpots that used to get well oiled.😂




anamnesis

"trans-ocean cultural exchange"

Now that's a handy phrase to remember! I used to just call it the BBS.
GuyW

Way off-topic I know...
Speaking of vernacular and slang, does anyone else remember Polari?
I'm thinking of course about a certain comedy show that was on the radio, back when it was still called the wireless.

(Still is called the wireless in our house lol)!
Greybeard

The show is still on DAB radio, audio CDs, Audiobooks, BBC Sounds, cassettes, at least one on a vinyl gramophone record.
Nigel Atkins

Off topic? Surely not.

If it was a comedy show, they must have mentioned 'midgets' at some point. 😆
anamnesis

This thread was discussed between 27/08/2021 and 05/09/2021

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.