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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Leaf springs

I’m working on the rear suspension.
All the rubber bushes and pads need replacing, I intend to replace them with poly bushes. The shackles are severely corroded so will need replacing too.

I’m not so sure about the springs though. They look ok, a bit of surface rust, but no cracks or breaks. However one of them seems to have sagged by 1/2 inch and is longer than the other.

Is 1/2 an inch significant? And when do springs need replacing?

I should have taken some measurements whilst the car was on the ground, before I took the springs off :(



C MADGE

How much longer is the "sagged" spring?

Do they look to be "a pair" or could one be from later, a different batch, different maker/supplier?

There's a John Twist video on springs.
Nigel Atkins

Nigel

The spring that has sagged is 1/4 inch longer and from the drivers side. They are a matched pair and I suspect the originals. The shackle on the drivers side is trapped in place by the fuel tank. I have read somewhere they came out like that from the factory, so I'm assuming the springs are the original ones.

Thinking through what I want to do with the car, its a debumpered 1500 and I want to lower it to the 1275 height. So I'm considering replacing the leaf springs with 1275 ones to lower the rear of the car. This will give a softer ride which (from what I have read) will improve handling by reducing oversteer ?

The car is a very early GAN6 and was originally fitted with 1275 springs at the front. These are heavily corroded and will be replaced by new 1275 springs. I'll add washers to lower the front of the car to match the rear.
C MADGE

I think that's a good course of action, subject to getting reasonably made rear springs. You want the car to handle as well as it can as that's one of the joys of a Spridget.

For front springs if you're upgrading your front suspension then I'd strongly recommend Kim Dear's "9.5" freelength 360lb rate. Retains standard ride height to overcome sleeping policemen, rough surface autotests/auto-solo's etc, whilst reducing body roll/ brake dive. £27.50 each" and ask him about his rear springs.

Lowering will improve handling but too much can be impractical (see photo).

As you'll be removing the tank anyway removal and fitting the shackle will be easier.

You're lucky as you have and can get a 7 gal tank, that extra gallon is well worth having.



Nigel Atkins

Although the fuel tank prevents the shackle being removed from the bracket, the bracket itself can be unbolted from the boot floor, so no need to drop the tank.
Dave O'Neill 2

Dave,
not mentioned here but the tank might be suspect so might as well combine the two and based on what's been found on the car already and its previous condition everything needs looking at and checking.

Chris wanted a restoration project and this car seems to be providing that very well.
Nigel Atkins

Yes the tank needs a good clean up as it’s got some heavy patches of rust . I took it out tonight. Shackle is now off too.

You are right Nigel, pretty much everything on this car has needed restoring or replacing so far....
C MADGE

Chris,
even cars that don't need restoring can need a lot of work doing on them, and then with time the work repeated. Restoration is just the start, then you move on to setting up, shakedowns, sorting/fettling, then running servicing/maintenance/repairs.

Give it a year or two after you've finished restoration and it should be about there - and on the beginning of its path to the next restoration. :)
Nigel Atkins

Nigel
I have to comment here: I bought and fitted the magicmidget front springs you refer to, but now with the car on the ground, I think its extremely stiff. Further more I find the front to high. I wrote to Kim yesterday and asked if he can recommend to fit some spacers maybe, and if he can deliver them.
I fitted new AH Spares rear springs last winther
Jan Kruber

Jan,
perhaps when you get back you could post a photo of how high the car sits. When the cars were new they did sit higher than modern cars and the wheel arches were not "filled" as they are today.

Also you fitted a lot of new parts but unless I've remembered wrong you not driven with these new parts fitted, things do settle with use.

Also sometimes high at the front can be from low at the back.

Tired standard springs can sit the car lower than new and uprated springs.

I have Frontline front and rear suspension conversions with uprated front ARB and I don't find the springs too stiff, the adjustable damper could be though if not set to softer settings.

Are you sure that it's the springs that are causing the stiffness and not other parts of the suspension, damper arms, wishbones(?) etc..

There are many factors to take into consideration when considering what ride height you can get on the car.

See below, I think my car is around factory ride height with 145/80-R13 tyres not "filling" the wheel arches (my rear springs have always made the back higher or look higher).



Nigel Atkins

This is standard ride height, with all original springs and 43000 miles. 155/80 tyres.


Dave O'Neill 2

Thar's very nice Dave.

Considering that has 155 tyres against my 145 mine might be sitting a little low especially at the front.

The weight of the car makes a difference if Jan's has carbon fibre panels and/or bonnet that could be it. :)
Nigel Atkins

Nigel
I think all the front suspension parts move fine. The sills are quite level to the ground, so maybe the car is positioned as meant to??
My car has the square wheelarcs, which makes it look a little sacked rear and it is very soft rear too, compared with the front. Im aware the Spridgets must be softer rear, but how much really.........?
C Madge: sorry, didn’t intend to highjack your thread.....
Jan Kruber

Jan,
spring info will be relevant to Chris later in his rebuild so not too far off topic here.

What we've done in previous threads is to measure the ride height in two ways, from middle of wheel hub to under side of wheel arch for each wheel and from level ground to bottom back corner of doors. Lots of measurements in Archives, obviously you need to compare against same model and year.

I can't know exactly what the front springs you got from Kim are like but the ones I got didn't feel too stiff or firm to me on my car compared with used and new standard springs and 400lb 1" lower springs I'd previously had fitted to my car. A 360lb rate spring will feel firmer than the standard 270lb, that's what helps with the body roll and brake dive.

If your car sits as level and high as Dave's car you should be very happy.

I'm sure Kim will do his best to help you out.

I just wondered about something like a stiff damper which would restrict the feel and movement, there is a John Twist video on it if it is still in his video list.

Cheers.
Nigel Atkins

Jan,
The front on its coil springs will feel very firm, compared to a modern car and if you are just pressing down on the front wing, rather than driving it. I suspect this is the case as I believe your car isn't quite finished for the road yet. By comparison, the rear which carries less weight will feel softer and more compliant. This is just as it should be. If the car is sitting level and looks right to you I would accept it like that at least until you have driven it for a few hundred miles - or kms! to allow everything to settle down.
GuyW

Well gentlemen, this is how my nearly finished Midget looks. As you can see, the car is level to the ground.
This is with the the AH Spares stock leaf springs rear and the MagicMidget / Kim Dear 360 lbs / 9" free length spring setup.
Before the swapping to the new springs, the distance from tyre to wheel arch was only the half......I'll post a photo shortly.
Does the appearance on the photo look right?



Jan Kruber

This is the 2017 appearance....


Jan Kruber

Jan, no problem with hijacking the thread, its very useful information for me too. :)
C MADGE

This thread was discussed between 23/04/2018 and 30/04/2018

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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